ITG maxogen - new enclosed filter information.

[jedi-knight83]

Quite quickly falling out of love with the ITG now...

Fitted the stock set up (which has a pipercross panel filter) to log and then re installed the closed ITG set up with the correct slam panel plate now.

Ran 2 runs with each set up again down the same stretch of road in 3rd gear. outside temp read 19-20 degrees on all runs.

ECU was reset (fault codes cleared in engine mode on vagcom) and then throttle body alignment carried out after fitting each set up then its a 5 mins drive to my test road which was done gently.

Intake temps were identical so no point posting those. I've ran out of patients to try to open filter now but going from the tests the other day it didnt seem to make much difference.

Air Mass stock with pipercross filter vs ITG closed


Actual boost stock with pipercross filter vs ITG closed


The ITG was only slightly better on air mass. 4-10 g/s

On the boost it was a bit worse at the beginning of the run

Now I know this is only logging and not a rolling road but TBH I was expecting bigger gains?? or is this completely normal?

[h4rdy]

Whats your definitive MAF?

Im here if you think of selling........

[jedi-knight83]

Whats your definitive MAF?

Im here if you think of selling........

definitive MAF?

HA I thought you had one and sold it yourself?

[h4rdy]

Im interested in the whole enclosed thing.

[jedi-knight83]

Im interested in the whole enclosed thing.

well as long as you dont get the annoying whistle!! the enclosed filter is MUCH quieter and there is none of the whooshing and sucking on part throttle and when you let off. Its barely louder than my stock engine cover with a pipercross panel filter.

[R-tech-Nick]

I have not see much losses with the stock intake and a good panel filter, if you think about it its the same setup on the S3 at 265bhp stock and 300bhp just from a stage 1 map using the stock paper filters.

We have done lots of testing for filter companies over the years and have seen little gains from induction kits (we upset them and they never came back as we did not give them the 12-22bhp gain on testing like the superchips dyno.... ),  only when pushing turbos hard at stage2 and above is when we started to see nice "peak" power gains from induction kits over the oem setups.

At stage 1 k03 TFSi tuning you need to be looking at reducing exhaust back pressures first,  just by removing the pre-cat you "could" gain 10bhp peak power and upto 15bhp in the midrange, get a sports cat fitted and you could be seeing gains of 20+bhp at points on a dyno graph.

Another way to gain power from flow is reduce the pressure drop between the turbo outlet and inlet manifold, getting outlet and inlet pressures close to each other by just 1-2psi could easy gain 10-15 bhp at points.  Higher flow intercoolers and bigger charge pipes.

[jedi-knight83]

I have not see much losses with the stock intake and a good panel filter, if you think about it its the same setup on the S3 at 265bhp stock and 300bhp just from a stage 1 map using the stock paper filters.

We have done lots of testing for filter companies over the years and have seen little gains from induction kits (we upset them and they never came back as we did not give them the 12-22bhp gain on testing like the superchips dyno.... ),  only when pushing turbos hard at stage2 and above is when we started to see nice "peak" power gains from induction kits over the oem setups.

At stage 1 k03 TFSi tuning you need to be looking at reducing exhaust back pressures first,  just by removing the pre-cat you "could" gain 10bhp peak power and upto 15bhp in the midrange, get a sports cat fitted and you could be seeing gains of 20+bhp at points on a dyno graph.

Nick. your supposed to be on holiday now.   log off and start relaxing.

Well as you know i've had the pre cat knocked out now so that should have improved things a bit.

My exhaust is still sooting up pretty quickly though so perhaps still over fuelling?

If im not going to see much of a gain with any intake then I might save some money and go back to the stock set up.

Shame though when everyone seems to say what a beneficial mod having an aftermarket intake is.

[gazbutS3]

totally agree with Nick, only really felt the benefits from the ITG when stage 2+, and higher up te rev range at the expense of low down grunt

[maxload]

We have done lots of testing for filter companies over the years and have seen little gains from induction kits

I have revo stage 1 and have had my (open) ITG fitted for a week now. You cant tell me there are are little gains to be had as I have noticed a big difference , especialy mid range.

[R-tech-Nick]

I have not see much losses with the stock intake and a good panel filter, if you think about it its the same setup on the S3 at 265bhp stock and 300bhp just from a stage 1 map using the stock paper filters.

We have done lots of testing for filter companies over the years and have seen little gains from induction kits (we upset them and they never came back as we did not give them the 12-22bhp gain on testing like the superchips dyno.... ),  only when pushing turbos hard at stage2 and above is when we started to see nice "peak" power gains from induction kits over the oem setups.

At stage 1 k03 TFSi tuning you need to be looking at reducing exhaust back pressures first,  just by removing the pre-cat you "could" gain 10bhp peak power and upto 15bhp in the midrange, get a sports cat fitted and you could be seeing gains of 20+bhp at points on a dyno graph.

Nick. your supposed to be on holiday now.  

Well as you know i've had the pre cat knocked out now so that should have improved things a bit.

My exhaust is still sooting up pretty quickly though so perhaps still over fuelling?

If im not going to see much of a gain with any intake then I might save some money and go back to the stock set up.

Shame though when everyone seems to say what a beneficial mod having an aftermarket intake is.

They will aways soot up a little at stage1 power as the "Lambdasoll für Bauteileschutz" maps are still in play and to be use to dump fuel as part of thermal component protection, which mean when giving the car some hard beans the lambda with drop to the richer side around 0.79 0.81 to cool the combustion at a compromise to power.   Only when the main cat gets removed and better charge cooling gets added then the lambda mapping is aimed more towards power by running around 0.84 - 0.85.   At stage1 its a fine art to get the balance right of all conditions.

I will make sure we have lots of time booked for you in the workshop, we can test many things on the dyno if needed to see whats worth doing at stage 1


ps

Wife is packing now... I have fitted the Halfords roof box to put the kids in..... Heading down south about 10am tomorrow..

[R-tech-Nick]

We have done lots of testing for filter companies over the years and have seen little gains from induction kits

I have revo stage 1 and have had my (open) ITG fitted for a week now. You cant tell me there are are little gains to be had as I have noticed a big difference , especialy mid range.

Very little peak power gains to be had.

Your running Bosch MED9 ecu which are load and torque based, the load and torque structure is based on MAF and MAP readings the ecu works out the power and cuts back.  Put an induction kit on a stock TFSI and you will be lucky to see 1-2bhp on the peak numbers.   

Start pushing the power to a point where the intake becomes restrictive, then you will be gains over a stock intake but no more power than the ecu will allow.  The best way to fool the TFSI to make more power without mapping is reduce back pressure.

With your setup you could have gained an avg of 5-6lbft across the midrange or on the peak boost point,  if your current oem intake was an isssue then the peak hp/flow high rpm gains would have been much greater.

The big peak power gains from induction kits are on NA engines, look at the R32 10bhp gain between 6400-6800rpm just from an induction kit, but nothing in the midrange.

I am running 2-3 cars every day 6 days a week on my dyno and have done for the last 4 years, I have see all the kits, oem intakes, diy kits ect and have a good picture in my head of what does what. 

We had a carbonio induction on a stage2 1.8T k03s.... 208bhp customer said car "felt and sounded quicker"  when he fitted the £200+  induction kit,  I could not map the car over 208bhp with over 6 hours on the dyno trying.  Jim removed the Carbonio induction kit and fitted a OEM air box with pipercross filter and did a power run back to back the result was 18bhp on the peak power.    Just did not sound as good in the midrange.


I am trying to help people save a little bit of money, a £35 Pipercross filter works fine on stage 1 TFSi tuning.

[PDT]

Maf readings are also dependant on requested and actual boost, if you are achieving the requested boost on a stock intake, then fitting a 'better' intake wont increase MAF as the engine itself is not requesting any more flow, but at the point the stock inlet becomes restrictive, the ITG may help.

[Tfsi_Mike]

Hmmm    £400 that could've been spent keeping swmbo happy then?

[jedi-knight83]

I feel I've opened a can of worms.

Perhaps I should ignore the maf / boost loggings and wait till the dyno to see what its really bringing to the table. TBH i cant feel much difference from the drivers seat on the road... but maybe my car isnt adapting itself to the intake well?

End of the day i dont mind selling and running stock.

My car made 234bhp on r-tech dyno which Nick felt was a little down so suggested removing the pre cat and getting an intake... both of which I have done. I only really want 240-250bhp but would like it nice and torquey and driveable so if we can get that with just the pre cat removed in the end then I'll be happy and if its ends up that the intake isnt adding anything on my stage 1 then I'll sell it.

I guess I was expecting it to be amazing and give a noticeable difference over OEM seeing as lots of people say what a good upgrade it is.

[R-tech-Nick]

I feel I've opened a can of worms.

Perhaps I should ignore the maf / boost loggings and wait till the dyno to see what its really bringing to the table. TBH i cant feel much difference from the drivers seat on the road... but maybe my car isnt adapting itself to the intake well?

End of the day i dont mind selling and running stock.

My car made 234bhp on r-tech dyno which Nick felt was a little down so suggested removing the pre cat and getting an intake... both of which I have done. I only really want 240-250bhp but would like it nice and torquey and driveable so if we can get that with just the pre cat removed in the end then I'll be happy and if its ends up that the intake isnt adding anything on my stage 1 then I'll sell it.

I guess I was expecting it to be amazing and give a noticeable difference over OEM seeing as lots of people say what a good upgrade it is.

We will see what we can do next time your down.....  Remember last time you was running the turbo N75 duty flat out across the whole rpm range and only made 214bhp...  There are many factors to tuning,  3-5mm pre load on the actuator and a map tweak could get you closer to 255bhp as I found out the other day and that was on a stock filter.