track day tyres : FAQ

[Hurdy]

The R1R rubber is the same construction and compound as the R888's with just the tyre tread being different. 

[Janner_Sy]

so weqar and tear should be the same, just with improved wet handling then??

[danishmkvgti]

The R1R rubber is the same construction and compound as the R888's with just the tyre tread being different. 

i don't know for the r888 but it has treadwear 140 (R1R)

[Janner_Sy]

well thats exactly half the treadware rating of the vredesteins i have.  they are prob good for about 12k id guess, so if the R1Rs were to last half as long you'd be looking at 6k lifespan. 

do you reckon these tyres have been brought out due to is upcoming law to ban road legal rack tyres from the road

[danishmkvgti]

well thats exactly half the treadware rating of the vredesteins i have.  they are prob good for about 12k id guess, so if the R1Rs were to last half as long you'd be looking at 6k lifespan. 

do you reckon these tyres have been brought out due to is upcoming law to ban road legal rack tyres from the road

i had to get them from camskill as Denmark and Germany didn't have this model 

[Hurdy]

well thats exactly half the treadware rating of the vredesteins i have.  they are prob good for about 12k id guess, so if the R1Rs were to last half as long you'd be looking at 6k lifespan. 

do you reckon these tyres have been brought out due to is upcoming law to ban road legal rack tyres from the road

Wear isn't necessarily going to last half as long as the Vredesteins. What you have to factor in is the fact that with Vredesteins you will be getting more wheelspin and therefore spinning away miles of rubber. With the R888/R1R's you have much more grip, so the tyres won't spin up as much and will result in better wear. Realistically they will not last as long as a normal road tyre, but I bet they will last much longer than you think.

The tyres were brought out as a direct counter to the legal shift in tyre requirements that will see the end of the R888's as road legal rubber

[GTIjames]

i have been contemplating sticky tyres for a while now, but could never justify the £800 that a full set of toyo r888s / R1Rs cost especially having just gone through my front michelin ps2's in c5k miles

so in the end I gave the hankook rs2 z212 a go, they cost me £115 a corner from camskill so almost half the price of toyo's and they are road-legal track tyre with R compound

after a week or so of having them on I have been rather impressed, i still get some wheel spin in 1st/2nd when booting it but nothing like my previous mich ps2's, cornering grip is just incredible now and along with improved braking, it really gives you the confidence to attack the twisties like never before.

I haven't had much rain at all lately so not been able to test them properly in wet conditions, but the tread pattern looks alot more standing water friendly than than the r888's

only downside is they have a rather stiff sidewall so if you are running coilovers the ride will be a bit harsher, there is also a bit more tyre/road noise but nothing too drastic

overall I am pleased with them, just have to wait and see how long they last



 








 

[danishmkvgti]

any feedback on the Michelin pilot sport cup tires?? preferably in 235/35-19-y.
I'm in need of tires to the 19" i have lying around.
where can they be had in the uk?

[tony_danza]

You'll get that size easily, as that's the fronts on M3 CSLs and a late GT3 RS.

They're epic, chewing gum grip and more importantly don't go off mid session due to overheating - really stable.

[Janner_Sy]

found this link of  review

here they rate Toyo R888, Yokohama A048, Dunlop DZ02's and Kumho V70a over  period of two yers with 10000 trck miles on them all on the same car with the same driver.

Toyo R888

These were the first 'R' rated tyre I ever used. After driving on Goodyear Eagle DSG3's or Yokohama Parada Spec2's which I thought were great, it was a revelation driving on a track orientated tyre.

The dry grip was a huge improvement over a standard road tyre. Turn in and feel was much better, this is due to the sidewalls on R tyres being much stiffer than a conventional tyre and the compound being a 'stickier' one than a normal road tyre. The R888's allowed longer sessions on track without overheating, the treadblocks are larger, allowing less movement than usual.

The tyres are very temperature dependant and certainly need a few minutes on track to get some heat into them before they start offering good levels of grip. Varying the pressures to get a good feel and grip took some experimenting, but once a sweet spot is found, they were fine.

The downside to this increased grip is tyre wear, as with most things in life, its a compromise between longevity and grip. On a track only car, I actually managed to get more miles out of a set simply because the normal road tyres overheated and started to fail with chunks of rubber breaking away from the surface after a long session. The 888's don't do that, they still overheat, but it takes longer to get them to do so.

Something I've found with 888's is a peculiar wear pattern, they seem to wear a 'groove' about 1/3 of the way in from the edge. Varying pressure doesn't seem to change it and I think its down to the geometry and FWD nature of my car.

Yokohama A048

After hearing many positive things about A048's, I decided to take the plunge, buy a new set and see what they are like for myself. I've only run R888's as track tyres before and know what they feel like in most conditions now. I have a good idea of what life to expect out of a set and how they perform when hot or cold.

Had a set of A048's fitted in Medium 195/50/15 in March 2009, Heat cycled them at Silverstone in May and decided to try them out at Cadwell in June.

First time I turned into Charlies, the steering felt MUCH heavier than before, I immediately commented on it to my passenger. Over the next few laps, once they warmed up, I could feel the sidewallls were much harder. The car usually has a strange 'bounce' when cornering under load, its the tyre wall flexing and I can always feel it. I'm used to it and its not a problem, but the A048's don't do that and it makes the turn in feel much sharper, but required more steering effort.

The A048's didn't overheat and grip wise seemed as good as the r888's.

From first impressions, if they cost the same as 888's, I'd got for the Yokohama's.

Dunlop DZ02

I also tried a part worn set of the DZ02's. I'd put them somewhere between the r888's and A048's. Definitely can feel the sidewall flexing, more than the A048's but not as much as the 888's.

Grip wise they seemed good, but these have had a few more heat cycles than the others and didn't seem quite as progressive, once the grip started to go, it fell off much quicker than the other two, however, I only did a couple of dry sessions with them, I need to do more laps to really get a feel for them and get them fully warmed up.

Like most things, these views are subjective so what I prefer, on my car with my driving style may be totally unsuitable for you.

Kumho V70a (Hard compound)

My initial thoughts (these may be partly due to the tyres been old and cycled several times.)

- They take longer to warm up than the r888's, Direzzas or A048's.
- The squeal more than the 888's, Direzzas or A048's
- The grip feels to be slightly less, but the GPS traces don't really back this up. Perhaps I'm driving them the same as the others, but using more of the available grip?
- They are wearing FAR FAR better than any other 'R' tyre I've used before.
- Sidewalls seem to be somewhere between the 888's and the A048's. Probably not quite as stiff as the A048's, but close.


I am definitely buying a set of these for my next track tyres instead of r888's or A048's. They are what I was hoping the A048's would be, similar grip to the Toyo's but longer life, I find the A048's better than the Toyos, but the life is disappointing.

The only thing I'm undecided on is should I go is compound. The hard compound may not be perfect for UK tracks, the hard does seem to take a while to heat up on my Golf, on heavier / more powerful cars, that may not be an issue, but the medium would probably be better in my case for shorter sessions and would offer more grip too.

Overall, I like the Kumho V70a's, a LOT. I managed around 70 laps out of my A048's before they were pretty much worn out. I did over 100 laps (at similar pace) on the part worn Kumho's and they still had life left.
 

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2010-Reader-Track-Day-Tyre-Comparison.htm

[fuscobal]

Were the 70 laps done on Nurburgring ?

PS : Speaking to some very experienced drivers on the Ring, I found out that the ideal tire pressure would be between 1.8 and 2.2 bar (for street tires at least...don't know for semislicks) !

[tony_danza]

I know the person who wrote that, and yes, most of those laps are on the Ring.

How long have I been banging on about V70As....  His note on the hard compound taking a while to warm up on a 980kg Golf, now think adding 300kg and you've found the sweet spot.

[RedRobin]

^^^^
Kumho V70A.. Thanks Mike .. Another road-legal track tyre to shortlist with the Hankook rs2 and expensive Michelin [said with a very heavy French accent] PS Cup.

Doubtless best to do a Hurdy and carry on rims to track, ready to swop.

GTIjames' Hankook rs2's appeared to be ditchfinders in a wet muddy patch - Inevitable on country roads.

[fuscobal]

My car with me and a passenger has about 1750-1800Kg so is pretty heavy. What's the difference between medium and hard for the Kumho ? Wich one would suit best my weight ?

[tony_danza]

Medium or hard will be fine, slightly more grip vs harder wearing.

Track only - med
Ring and summer road use - hard.