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Author Topic: are your fast road pads street legal???? they might not be  (Read 26538 times)

Offline Janner_Sy

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are your fast road pads street legal???? they might not be
« on: March 16, 2010, 04:45:04 pm »
this is from a thread on briskoda, so are quotes, but makes for interesting reading.

essentially it is all about Ferrodo DS2500 pads being listed as track day only.

here are some main quotes

Quote
DS2500's are not approved to ECE R90 ("Reg 90") and therefore must not be used on public roads on vehicles manufactured from end of 1999 onwards. Basically DS2500's are for off-road only and not legal for use on the road. You insurance will not be valid. Look for a pad which is Reg-90 approved if you want to use it on the road - your insurance will cover you with any Reg 90 pad.

Quote
There is as far as I am aware no requirement for aftermarket parts to be type approved.

Scrub that what he said is right since 2001 in the UK in actual fact.

Quote
Further to my reply further up, just to add emphasis, here is some marketing text re. the DS2500's from Balance Motorsports..

"Ferodo DS2500 is a very popular pad for trackday users and also for outright circuit use on the shorter events. DS2500's chief characteristic is it offers a very high level of friction. DS2500 also offers excellent pedal modulation and feel. DS2500 gives you the confidence to drive accurately and smoothly on track, braking late but safe. DS2500 pads have been a big seller from Balance Motorsport for some time. DS2500 pads are also very driver friendly having excellent pedal modulation and feel. Please remember these pads are not reg 90 approved and therefore any car made later than 2000 should only use these pads on track!"

I believe that Ferodo manufacture a 'performance pad' which IS reg 90 approved and is a milder version of the DS2500.

i know alot of guys on here reccomend them and are using them as well.  could be bad news if your insurance is invalidated as a result of these inpads in a crash

Offline robern2

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Re: are your fast road pads street legal???? they might not be
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2010, 05:24:35 pm »
Even the fast road compound from ferodo isn't Reg90 approved.

Offline jonnyc

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Re: are your fast road pads street legal???? they might not be
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2010, 06:31:01 pm »
When did Police start doing roadside checks on brake pad compound..?  :wink:
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Offline JPC

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Re: are your fast road pads street legal???? they might not be
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2010, 07:29:33 pm »
I run the ferodos. I knew when I fitted them they were iffy. But it's a calculated risk

Offline Eccie

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Re: are your fast road pads street legal???? they might not be
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2010, 07:51:32 pm »
You may find you have issues with you insurance!  :driver:


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Offline MAT ED30

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Re: are your fast road pads street legal???? they might not be
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2010, 08:12:30 pm »
what a lot of bollox mine have these pads in them and trust me they stop the car dead in its tracks no matter if they are hot or cold  :confused:

Mods yes but way too many to stick in this little box

Offline Janner_Sy

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Re: are your fast road pads street legal???? they might not be
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2010, 10:35:34 pm »
i dont doubt they stop the car really well, but that wouldnbt stop the insurance company voiding any cover if you crashed into someone, by stating that your brakes  dont conform to the required regulations.

@jonny cant imagine the cop shop checking this but the insurance guys wo9uld in the event of a collision if they see the car is modified, as they will be looking for excuses to not pay

Offline DaveB@Vagbremtechnic

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Re: are your fast road pads street legal???? they might not be
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2010, 06:47:10 am »
When did Police start doing roadside checks on brake pad compound..?  :wink:

Not roadside checks - but if you knock somebody over in a modded car (regardless of who or why), they will take it to pieces for you free of charge in the process of gathering evidence and assembling a case against you.  

:wink:

I was under the impression that DS2500's were Reg 90 but obviously every day is a schoolday somebody better tell AP.

Reg90 covers does however cover a multitude of requirements stopping power when cold / temp range being one of many, its a little like some of the very advanced brake fluids not getting classed as Dot5 - they may only be "Dot4" and massively outperform the best Dot5 fluids but they might not meet only one of the range of criteria that qualifys it as Dot5 such as freezing temperature.

So becasue we cant use it in Northern Russia in winter it gets a Dot4 label and not Dot5. Reg 90 only really means that the pads come in within +/- 15% of OEM - if they are 16% better then no approval, or indeed its cheaper for the manufacturers just not to bother applying for approval as its a "specialist" pad and a fraction of their market compared to how many pads they sell for Mondeos and Transits.

Simple test I think that on the back of the pad its got a E11 stamp = Reg90

DS2500's are a compromise pad , Ive always advocated two sets of pads one track/one road.

And will people stop upsetting Matt by saying anything bad about the VWR brakes please  :booty:   :wink:  :happy2:
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 06:58:26 am by DaveB1970 »

Offline MAT ED30

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Re: are your fast road pads street legal???? they might not be
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2010, 08:36:35 am »
 :P :signLOL:

Mods yes but way too many to stick in this little box

Offline RedRobin

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Re: are your fast road pads street legal???? they might not be
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2010, 08:39:10 am »
Pah!! Poppycock! DS2500's may not conform to certain regulations but they are a damned sight safer on the road than the stock brakes imo. In the several years I've been running DS2500's as part of the AP Racing BBK there have been inevitable occasions when I feel they have saved me from an accident [sorry, I should probably say "incident" as the term "accident" might be against the regulations].

My insurer Greenlight has accepted my complete and very long list of modifications and has raised no issue.

Does this question arise because of using DS2500's with oem brake components rather than a professionally designed overall brake kit package?


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Offline RedRobin

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Re: are your fast road pads street legal???? they might not be
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2010, 08:44:48 am »

I was under the impression that DS2500's were Reg 90 but obviously every day is a schoolday somebody better tell AP.


....AP now use their own brake pads: APF404 - Consider where Ferodo DS2500, Pagid Blue (RS4-2), Pagid Blue RS421 or Carbo-TechXP10 are currently used. The APF404 is sold as a High Performance Road and Track pad.


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Offline tony_danza

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Re: are your fast road pads street legal???? they might not be
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2010, 09:14:20 am »
Given the paint has burnt off the back of all my pads, the DS Performance reg 90's and various track only pads, rendering them unidentifiable... they'd have a fecking good job trying to tell which from which!!

I have to mark them when removing each set to remember what they are, they're just a black pad.

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Offline animal

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Re: are your fast road pads street legal???? they might not be
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2010, 11:31:05 am »
Pah!! Poppycock! DS2500's may not conform to certain regulations but they are a damned sight safer on the road than the stock brakes imo. In the several years I've been running DS2500's as part of the AP Racing BBK there have been inevitable occasions when I feel they have saved me from an accident [sorry, I should probably say "incident" as the term "accident" might be against the regulations].

My insurer Greenlight has accepted my complete and very long list of modifications and has raised no issue.

Does this question arise because of using DS2500's with oem brake components rather than a professionally designed overall brake kit package?

The term you are looking for is 'collision' Robin.

Personal opinion has nothing to do with it. And telling your insurance company still doesn't make the pads road legal. It's no different to running a chav-tastic HID conversion kit - the kits aren't type approved, so game over in the event of a collision, especially a fatal one and you are at fault! DS2500/DS3000 are not road legal pads. It's very simple. If you want to run performance pads on the road you need to be using something like Ferodo DS Performance (new name for DS2000) pads - which I use and they are excellent. They are a different compound and I believe it is to with the rate at which they reach optimum operating temperature.

This isn't a new issue, it's widely known that DS2500/DS3000 aren't road legal. If you go to the performance section of Demon Tweeks, under pads - they dont even list DS2500/3000, only DS Performance - you have to switch to the motorsport section. It has nothing to do with the setup, be it OEM, BBK, etc etc - it's all about the compound of the pad.

I promise you that if you have an accident and it comes to light that you dont have road legal pads (or road legal anything for that matter...) you are going to be in hot water. Granted it depends on the severity of the collision as to the level of detail that the investigation will go into, but you're a braver man than I if you are prepared to take that risk. I can't go into detail but I am very close to this sort of information and rest assured that people do get caught out by things like this all time. And do end up in serious trouble. Agree with it or not, its the law.

What makes my blood boil with insurance issues like this the cavalier attitude some people adopt. It's all well and good just thinking about your own welfare and the your own car, but what about the third party? The person whose car you hit or knock down? You might feel that the insurance company not paying out to repair or replace your car is an acceptable risk but what about the other car(s) you hit, the people you injure, even the lamp post you knock down? If your insurance is void because of a modification you have made, you become personally liable for these costs - they dont just go away because your insurer wont pay out. You will personally be sued for person injury, local authorities will bill you for road side repairs and third party insurance co's will be after you to recover their costs as best they can. And when they cant recover their costs, who do they pass this cost on to? Those of us who do things properly.

I know of one girl I used to work with who had to spend her entire house deposit (£25k+) settling a claim personally after an accident when it came to light she wasnt properly insured. If you get caught out like this, you will end up in court, possibly bankrupt, definitely no license and possibly even in prison. Is that really worth it for a set of brake pads?
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Offline cmdrfire

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Re: are your fast road pads street legal???? they might not be
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2010, 01:40:56 pm »
Very well said animal. This isn't a matter of personal opinion or what you prefer or do not prefer; for whatever reason these pads are not type approved for the road and as such should not be used.

Given the paint has burnt off the back of all my pads, the DS Performance reg 90's and various track only pads, rendering them unidentifiable... they'd have a fecking good job trying to tell which from which!!

I have to mark them when removing each set to remember what they are, they're just a black pad.


Detailed analysis will be able to determine the makeup of the compound fairly easily.

It's like that guy with the Toyota Prius in the US which apparently suffered from a runaway accelerator - within 2 days Federal, Toyota, and other independent engineers were able to determine that his claim did not stand true and it was revealed as a hoax.
I'm sure he thought as well "no-one will be able to tell what I've done."

Laypeople are often astonished at what engineers can determine, from not very much as well. There's simply no point in running the risk for what is arguably a very minor performance gain under a given set of circumstances over a legal, type-approved pad operating under the same circumstances.

Offline tony_danza

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Re: are your fast road pads street legal???? they might not be
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2010, 03:22:36 pm »
Oh, I've no doubt it could be done if they wanted to find out - but on the flip side I'd have a hard time proving my road pads are actually DS Performance, as they're now unidentifiable to anyone just visually checking I'm legal.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 03:24:14 pm by tony_danza »
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