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Author Topic: PCV and the inner workings of the system on the tfsi engine  (Read 25744 times)

Offline cuprak1

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PCV and the inner workings of the system on the tfsi engine
« on: October 26, 2009, 10:15:31 am »
The PCV system on the 2.0T is a complex one but nothing that's to difficult to figure out once you cut it apart on the bandsaw

The first thing to do is identify what all of these ports are doing.



PCV Gasses enter the valve cover through the port labeled Crank Inlet .

Once inside the valve cover there are a series of chambers, baffles, and drains. As gasses move through these ports they will eventually come to the Vacuum Control Diaphragm and Diagnostic Port.

The vacuum control diaphragm is used while the car is in vacuum. When vacuum is applied to the diaphragm it is sucked down to limit the amount of draw applied to everything behind it. In factory orientation if this diaphragm were to become ripped it would allow so much vacuum to be applied to the pcv system that oil would literally be sucked out of the head and into the motor.

Heading towards the intake manifold there is a Check Valve This is the valve that is known for failing on these cars. When working properly this valve opens under vacuum and closes under boost.

When in vacuum pcv gasses are pulled through the diagnostic port and into the intake manifold. When in boost the pcv gasses go out the other side of the diagnostic port and into a passage molded into the valve cover then out the Rear Outlet

You can follow along with the flow of gasses through this image.



So what this all boils down to is that there is no "Front" or "Rear" PCV. Its all one system. What people refer to as a rear pcv is just a passage built into the valve cover. A few of the different revisions had different check valve orientation but the function and layout is the same across all the cars.

I hope that taught you something about your toy!

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Offline Phil@BSH

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Re: PCV and the inner workings of the system on the tfsi engine
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2009, 08:36:32 pm »
You're welcome.  :wink:
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Offline Top Cat

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Re: PCV and the inner workings of the system on the tfsi engine
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2009, 08:43:35 pm »
You're welcome.  :wink:

 Who is.  :chicken:

I think you got that wrong your suppose to say hi my name is Phil and we say your welcome here.  :signLOL:   :happy2:

Offline KRL

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Re: PCV and the inner workings of the system on the tfsi engine
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2009, 08:54:31 pm »
You're welcome.  :wink:

Hi Phil!

Great to see you on here and welcome aboard  :drinking:
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 09:00:43 pm by KRL »

Offline Phil@BSH

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Re: PCV and the inner workings of the system on the tfsi engine
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2009, 09:08:12 pm »
You're welcome.  :wink:

 Who is.  :chicken:

I think you got that wrong your suppose to say hi my name is Phil and we say your welcome here.  :signLOL:   :happy2:

The OP is. I wrote that and made all the diagrams  :wink: I dont mind though!

However, hi my name is Phill, thanks for having me on the site!
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 09:12:00 pm by Phil@BSH »
513 bhp at 24 psi. More still to come!
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Help us work with you. If we make a part that you want and it needs special Euro fitments please contact tech@bshspeedshop.com

Offline Top Cat

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Re: PCV and the inner workings of the system on the tfsi engine
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2009, 09:10:14 pm »
You're welcome.  :wink:

 Who is.  :chicken:

I think you got that wrong your suppose to say hi my name is Phil and we say your welcome here.  :signLOL:   :happy2:

The OP is. I wrote that and made all the diagrams  :wink:

However, hi my name is Phill, thanks for having me on the site!

I know you did.  :happy2:

Welcome to the forum Phil.   :drinking:

Offline Phil@BSH

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Re: PCV and the inner workings of the system on the tfsi engine
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2009, 09:16:05 pm »
You're welcome.  :wink:

 Who is.  :chicken:

I think you got that wrong your suppose to say hi my name is Phil and we say your welcome here.  :signLOL:   :happy2:

The OP is. I wrote that and made all the diagrams  :wink:

However, hi my name is Phill, thanks for having me on the site!

I know you did.  :happy2:

Welcome to the forum Phil.   :drinking:

Thanks, this seems like a really good forum.
513 bhp at 24 psi. More still to come!
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Help us work with you. If we make a part that you want and it needs special Euro fitments please contact tech@bshspeedshop.com

Offline SteveP

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Re: PCV and the inner workings of the system on the tfsi engine
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2009, 09:19:36 pm »
^^^ Thanks Phil.

Good to see you have finally found us  :happy2:

Offline cuprak1

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Re: PCV and the inner workings of the system on the tfsi engine
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2009, 11:37:59 pm »
credit to BSH for the thread  :happy2:

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Offline edition_30

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Re: PCV and the inner workings of the system on the tfsi engine
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2009, 10:04:12 am »
Very informative thread..

im still trying to get my head round the stage 1 & catch can fixes.. i understand that stage 1 is just a fit & forget system where as the catch can catches all the gunk.. so in the case of the stage 1 fix where does all this gunk go.. is it just recirculated back where it comes from.. is this any good for the engine.. why is the engine trying to get rid of it in the first place?

Offline john_o

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Offline Phil@BSH

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Re: PCV and the inner workings of the system on the tfsi engine
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2009, 06:27:25 pm »
Very informative thread..

im still trying to get my head round the stage 1 & catch can fixes.. i understand that stage 1 is just a fit & forget system where as the catch can catches all the gunk.. so in the case of the stage 1 fix where does all this gunk go.. is it just recirculated back where it comes from.. is this any good for the engine.. why is the engine trying to get rid of it in the first place?

Allow me to help you with this. Crank case pressures and blowby gasses are a natural part of the combustion process. In order to achieve a smooth running, efficient motor these pressures and gasses need to be vented as otherwise the engines rotation would have to work against these pressures. Emissions requirements for all modern vehicles require these gasses to be recirculated and burned off. The process of how this is done on the 2.0T FSI is explained in the first post of this thread.

The problem with the factory design is it gives a clear path for positive pressure (boost) to act on the crank ventilation system. In theory the design should work, however in reality the factory check valves leak even on brand new from the dealer parts. This leads to a poor idle, loss of performance, oil being blown all over the place etc. The stage 1 system we offer maintains the factory routing as if the car was always in boost. It utilizes the twin oil separators (one in the oil cooler housing, one in the valve cover as seen above) these are the factory provisions which are decently affective but not even close to perfect. The gasses that are recirculated go through the intercooler piping instead of  the alternative is to expose them directly to the intake manifold and intake valve which have no cleaning agent (fuel) passing through do to the direct injection will lead to build up on the valves which creates a huge list of running and performance issues and is an absolute pain to clean.

This brings us to the catch can systems. The catch can systems take the initial design of the stage 1 kit with its benefits of removing boost from ever acting on the pcv system and the other preventative measures and takes it a step further by providing a baffled container to hold blowby gasses to prevent them making its way back into the motor. Our systems are substantially better than the ebay type parts as not only do they come with necessary vehicle components but also a properly designed baffled catch can. We offer three options, Street, Competition, and Race. Each of these systems have their own sets of charecteristics that allow customers to tailor their part selection to their individual needs.

Both the Street and Competition systems are recirculating systems. Meaning, the pressures are returned to the intake after passing through a can designed to separate oil blowby. The path to the intake also has the benefit of creating a draw to the crank case which pulls pressure out. The caveat is that the recirculated system will still allow a small amount of blowby to pass, clearly nothing close to what would of otherwise ended up in the motor however.

The race system is a Vent to Atmosphere (VTA) and has completely different design which utilizes the pressure differential between the crank case and the atmosphere to vent the pressure. Since vacuum is no longer applied to the system we made the very important design decisions to bring in a second port (one for the block, one for the head) to properly vent all the pressures just using the difference in pressures. Properly designed VTA systems will allow 0 blowby to re-enter the motor and is the best choice in this regard. The trade off for this system is since the gasses are vented to atmosphere there is a scent associated with it and the car will not pass a visual emissions inspection in areas where recirculated crank case gasses are required. This is the system we use on our 500 bhp 2.0t FSI.

As you can see, each of our pcv solutions has their own target market allowing all customers to cater their project needs with our parts. This info should be found helpful for anyone who is in the researching stage.   
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: PCV and the inner workings of the system on the tfsi engine
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2009, 05:24:07 pm »
^^^^
Thankyou, Phil :happy2:

Is it the 'Street' or 'Competition' version which we have all bought via Dubtek's Group Buy?


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Offline SteveP

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Re: PCV and the inner workings of the system on the tfsi engine
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2009, 06:08:30 pm »
^^^ We have street cans.

Offline edition_30

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Re: PCV and the inner workings of the system on the tfsi engine
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2009, 01:22:01 pm »
Thanks for the in-depth reply phil.. so am i right in thinking that with the stage 1 fix it prevents any of the oil etc. ever touching the intake valves?