URGENT oil pressure stop engine

[Pesky jones]

A few turns will do no damage at all and there will still be oil on all the important internals anyways, it's no different to turning it by hand than it is via starter motor. Only different is your not turning it over fast enough for it to start.

I agree 

Erm yeah it used to sound diesely before and then even more when I was.coming off the track before the engine cut out, is that what you were referring to?

Not sounding good pesky, could you tell whether the noise was from top or bottom?. Was it a metallic noise more than deisely?.
I'm wondering is if your hpfp tappet has anything to do with this?.

Top, I don't know if you've seen or heard this before, but our engines can have problems with stretched cam chains, tensioner, adjustor etc. Some people replaced (like dazza did). Mine started to show symptons (getting more rattly when warm) but it wasn't as bad as some of the other cars I had heard. However, after I pulled off the track - the rattle was much much louder then ususal.

So I personally think the cam chain may have slipped when I was pulling to a stop. However, thinking about it why would it have sounded so much more rattly as soon as I was pulling off the track after getting the message?http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16395/P0011/000017 This is the ross tech code - it shows possible causes could be mechanical timing chain/belt or the N205 adjustment valve.

[Pesky jones]

Just spoke to dads mate on the phone, he asked me about the noise it was making before it cut out. He asked if it was a slow clunk or a tick tick tick tick - it was the latter. He then said about oil pump, and that it may be that if the pick up pipe was relatively clear.

I said I’d check the oil pump tonight before he comes round Saturday, is it possible for me to do so? He said check through the oil for bits of metal etc. Its in a bucket at the moment, whats the best way of doing this?! Magnets?

Also, on this post here about half way down someone says that a crank sensor/ wiring issue can cause the pressure light to come on and cause the engine to cut out?

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=251930.0

At the time I thought the oil pressure turn engine off message would be like the low petrol light, where it comes and goes intermittently (which the oil pressure message was doing to me!) could it just be a sensor??

[Dan_FR]

Crank sensor is easily ruled out if the RPM needle moves when cranking, or you see an RPM signal through VCDS. It also wouldn't be accompanied by the rough sounding engine noises that would be caused by low oil pressure

As for checking the oil, magnet could work, or buy a cheap strainer/sieve and poor the oil through it - your looking for chunks/teeth from cogs etc. Oil pump failure looks likely given that your strainer was far from blocked. A full inspection will reveal all, how much you can inspect it without full removal I don't know as I've never removed one on a TFSI

Even if it is oil pump failure, the big question is whether the engine has survived. Used oil pumps are a few hundred quid, new ones as obscene money from VW

[Pesky jones]

Crank sensor is easily ruled out if the RPM needle moves when cranking, or you see an RPM signal through VCDS. It also wouldn't be accompanied by the rough sounding engine noises that would be caused by low oil pressure

As for checking the oil, magnet could work, or buy a cheap strainer/sieve and poor the oil through it - your looking for chunks/teeth from cogs etc. Oil pump failure looks likely given that your strainer was far from blocked. A full inspection will reveal all, how much you can inspect it without full removal I don't know as I've never removed one on a TFSI

Even if it is oil pump failure, the big question is whether the engine has survived. Used oil pumps are a few hundred quid, new ones as obscene money from VW

Thanks for clearing that up @Dan_FR , I will sieve it through. If there is no metal, chunks etc then I will proceed this weekend to refit sump, remove HPFP fuse (need to find out which one) and then turn the ignition as @doylebros has advised. What am I expecting at this point? The "oil pressure turn engine off" was intermittent so it might not even come up on the dash anyway for me to observe it turning off if you know what I mean? Do I just keep the cranking going for a little bit and then reinsert the HPFP fuse and try to start the engine? Can oil pressure be observed through VCDS without the engine running?

[Dan_FR]

Thanks for clearing that up @Dan_FR , I will sieve it through. If there is no metal, chunks etc then I will proceed this weekend to refit sump, remove HPFP fuse (need to find out which one) and then turn the ignition as @doylebros has advised. What am I expecting at this point? The "oil pressure turn engine off" was intermittent so it might not even come up on the dash anyway for me to observe it turning off if you know what I mean? Do I just keep the cranking going for a little bit and then reinsert the HPFP fuse and try to start the engine? Can oil pressure be observed through VCDS without the engine running?

Checking the oil is not a guarantee that there is no damage to the oil pump, teeth could be stripped, cogs snapped/detached etc. It needs to be checked and the cause of your low oil pressure found before trying to start it again

If the car fails to start, you will get the oil pressure warning light, caused from continued low oil pressure without the engine running

Even if the oil light goes out, all that means is that the oil pressure is enough to turn the light out (which is a really low amount, switch is something like 0.8 or 1.1bar, not the 5bar plus that you will see when driving.)

Oil pressure cannot be measured on the Mk5 AFAIK, certainly can't on my Leon, but then it is a poor person cars and doesn't even have a washer fluid level sensor, or the oil level sensor etc.

Seriously do not just try and start it without determining the cause first

[grey golfster]

A few turns will do no damage at all and there will still be oil on all the important internals anyways, it's no different to turning it by hand than it is via starter motor. Only different is your not turning it over fast enough for it to start.
[/quxote]


Not quite true...
By hand, almost no possibility of causing additional damage (assuming you don't use a big breaker bar, torque multiplier or similar - I've seen it done!).
By starter motor you add a mechanical gearing effect, and some degree of momentum from the running gear/flywheel etc, as well as compression gas loadings, even if the ignition/fuel pump are isolated so as to prevent firing. So must be greater risk of more damage?
And if turning over/running at tickover, then all of the above plus firing gas loads too.

Go slow n steady, one step at a time, it's not a big engine after all, not that hard to turn over by hand...
Take the plugs out.

Ladies tights make an excellent impro filter/strainer, and will catch all debris if you pour your oil thru them. Get your lady to take them off first tho

Ps I'm not a car mechanic, but am a mechanical engineer and have seen some spectacular engine damages over the years.

I really wouldn't risk a start without a very good look at the internals!

[Pesky jones]

Oh, so really I need to remove the oil pump  Im going to hazard a guess and say this is beyond me. I think its garage time :(

[andy1979uk]

If you remove the oil pump then it's £60 just for the stretch bolts to refit it. New oil pumps are £900 and good luck finding a secondhand one, sometimes easier to just cut your losses and get a new engine. As the others said by the time the light comes on the damage is probably done.

[r5gtt]

If buy a Chinese copy oil pump if the oem are £900 smackers 

[Pesky jones]

I'm thinking if I remove the cover plate on the bottom of the crankshaft, and also the oil pump cover, I can check for damage on crankshaft and also the oil pump sprockets etc. I'll also check the oil filter and sieve/ magnet the oil.

I've just got it in my head that I don't want to write the engine off and start looking for a new engine if the problem was actually simple. If I can't see any evidence of metal in the engine oil or pump, then surely it's worth a try, if there is metal in there then the engine is already shot

[r5gtt]

Pesky dude have you removed the rocker cover and checked the hydraulic tensioner for the chain?. easy enough to do.

[Pesky jones]

Pesky dude have you removed the rocker cover and checked the hydraulic tensioner for the chain?. easy enough to do.

No, what tensioner sorry? Valve cover?

[dazza]

 

Pesky dude have you removed the rocker cover and checked the hydraulic tensioner for the chain?. easy enough to do.

The cam chain housing is separate from the rocker cover. I removed the rocker cover first but it may be possible just to remove the cam chain housing?

[r5gtt]

Pesky dude have you removed the rocker cover and checked the hydraulic tensioner for the chain?. easy enough to do.

The cam chain housing is separate from the rocker cover. I removed the rocker cover first but it may be possible just to remove the cam chain housing?

Thanks for the explanation dazza.l 

Pesky you're always talking about the chain being stretched right?, here it is on this video mate. You'll see the tensioner in the centre.

[Pesky jones]

Thanks @r5gtt yeah ive read dazzas thread on it... many times. I think il take it off this weekend. May as well get the valve cover off as well to observe the valves when im hand cranking.