Golf Mk5 Gti Intercooler vs Edition 30

[r5gtt]

We wish it was bigger, indeed. Put a TBE with sports cat (or decat), fit a bigger IC (S3 or bigger) and fit an upgraded HPFP (LOBA, APR, Autotech internals) and with a stock map you can see 270 BHP, which is the same as the S3 engine makes from factory.

are you saying @Shoduchi that the above parts fitted to a standard gti can produce an extra 70 bhp without having to Map it?.

You can compare my dyno runs before and after mapping. The engine was pretty consistent achieving the 270 BHP on that BAPRO dyno.

@Shoduchi do you have an ed30 or gti buddy?.

[Shoduchi]

@Shoduchi do you have an ed30 or gti buddy?.

I have an Ed. 30, it's in my signature.

[r5gtt]

@Shoduchi do you have an ed30 or gti buddy?.

I have an Ed. 30, it's in my signature.

That's why you're getting more boost as Dan_FR mentioned it's only the ed30.

[pudding]

Mine on WOT is always less than 10 degrees above ambient with the meth off (Still have a/c rad). .

Even after 10 pulls to the redline on a 28 deg summer's day?  I'm calling BS on that, pending VCDS logs as proof 

Can't say I've ever tried 10 back to back runs on a summers day. Lot of variables to consider too, but whenever I logged my car before fitting the meth, which included leaving the thing plugged in and logging the entire 'session', on a WOT run the IAT at the top of a gear was within 10 degrees of ambient. On the standard cooler it went a lot higher

Don't get me wrong the cooler will heatsoak in slow moving traffic/town cruising the same as any cooler will, but when theres plenty of airflow at 'motorway speeds' then it does its job very well

There are indeed a lot of variables at play.  I used the 10 pulls scenario from past experience on one of my old projects.

Best I ever saw in terms of IATs was with a chargecooler setup.  5-8 above ambient over winter and 11-16 above in summer.   I'd be happy with that from a front mount upgrade tbh.  Keeps the torque more consistent 

They're funny things intercoolers.  I once saw a MK4 GTI with a K04 upgrade using an uprated side mount, which claimed to be 40% bigger and 30% more efficient or something.  IATs hit 70 deg after 1 pull in 3rd with that     Useless.  Then again, that method of intercooling wasn't great to begin with.  Can't beat a front mount.

The standard GTI/Edition one isn't that bad in day to day driving - with standard boost.    Running these little cotton reel K03/4s at 1.4+ bar kicks out some mega charge heat.  Something the stock cooler wasn't designed for.  Normal driving with cool down periods is OK though.  Constantly on boost on track or on the dyno is where weak intercoolers show up!

[Shoduchi]

@Shoduchi do you have an ed30 or gti buddy?.

I have an Ed. 30, it's in my signature.

That's why you're getting more boost as Dan_FR mentioned it's only the ed30.

I was comparing the S3 engine and the Ed. 30 engine. Upgrading the IC, the exhaust and the HPFP (shouldn't make a difference before tuning, though) and you get the same power output as the S3 engine.

[r5gtt]

@Shoduchi do you have an ed30 or gti buddy?.

I have an Ed. 30, it's in my signature.

That's why you're getting more boost as Dan_FR mentioned it's only the ed30.

I was comparing the S3 engine and the Ed. 30 engine. Upgrading the IC, the exhaust and the HPFP (shouldn't make a difference before tuning, though) and you get the same power output as the S3 engine.

Right now I understand  maybe a future mod with an IC and LOBA or similar will see how things go. thanks for the replies 

[Paradox1]

Mine on WOT is always less than 10 degrees above ambient with the meth off (Still have a/c rad). .

Even after 10 pulls to the redline on a 28 deg summer's day?  I'm calling BS on that, pending VCDS logs as proof 

Can't say I've ever tried 10 back to back runs on a summers day. Lot of variables to consider too, but whenever I logged my car before fitting the meth, which included leaving the thing plugged in and logging the entire 'session', on a WOT run the IAT at the top of a gear was within 10 degrees of ambient. On the standard cooler it went a lot higher

Don't get me wrong the cooler will heatsoak in slow moving traffic/town cruising the same as any cooler will, but when theres plenty of airflow at 'motorway speeds' then it does its job very well

There are indeed a lot of variables at play.  I used the 10 pulls scenario from past experience on one of my old projects.

Best I ever saw in terms of IATs was with a chargecooler setup.  5-8 above ambient over winter and 11-16 above in summer.   I'd be happy with that from a front mount upgrade tbh.  Keeps the torque more consistent 

They're funny things intercoolers.  I once saw a MK4 GTI with a K04 upgrade using an uprated side mount, which claimed to be 40% bigger and 30% more efficient or something.  IATs hit 70 deg after 1 pull in 3rd with that     Useless.  Then again, that method of intercooling wasn't great to begin with.  Can't beat a front mount.

The standard GTI/Edition one isn't that bad in day to day driving - with standard boost.    Running these little cotton reel K03/4s at 1.4+ bar kicks out some mega charge heat.  Something the stock cooler wasn't designed for.  Normal driving with cool down periods is OK though.  Constantly on boost on track or on the dyno is where weak intercoolers show up!

Yeah that's very true. Back when I had a 18T gti there wasn't much options for turbo cooling.
There was the side mount intercoolers which was a lot bigger. I took my car to R-tech and Niki told me I had wasted my money as they don't hold any improvement

2nd option was the Ebay fmic. the in/out pipes were a difference size and you could get the bumper back on without cutting the Sh1t out of your bumber. Even though the fit was crap, you did feel some benefits. like a massive surge when coming on boost.

Finally I upgrade to the wellycooler, 3inch in/outlets then reduced to 2.5. by far the best setup for the engine and it would have still be able to cater for big turbo setups. Even though at the time I was on a k03s I still didn't get any lag which was suprising for such a big cooler.

I cant wait to try my twintercooler setup now

[pudding]

+40hp just from an IC and exhaust.  Impressive!

I've bought an S3 IC from my dealer friend for a good price and will be using the APR downpipe.  I'll see what that does.

I think with the Edition, once you start going above 1.3 bar, the standard IC and downpipe are big performance bottle necks.  It's still impressive they make 300hp stage 1 though.  It's just not repeatable because of the intake and EGT temps rising sharply.

[Shoduchi]

+40hp just from an IC and exhaust.  Impressive!

I've bought an S3 IC from my dealer friend for a good price and will be using the APR downpipe.  I'll see what that does.

I think with the Edition, once you start going above 1.3 bar, the standard IC and downpipe are big performance bottle necks.  It's still impressive they make 300hp stage 1 though.  It's just not repeatable because of the intake and EGT temps rising sharply.

I still want more power, I don't feel any real lack of traction if I don't floor it from reduced speeds. The DSG makes the engine be very progressive delivering the power. I'm waiting for a map tweak still.

[pudding]

+40hp just from an IC and exhaust.  Impressive!

I've bought an S3 IC from my dealer friend for a good price and will be using the APR downpipe.  I'll see what that does.

I think with the Edition, once you start going above 1.3 bar, the standard IC and downpipe are big performance bottle necks.  It's still impressive they make 300hp stage 1 though.  It's just not repeatable because of the intake and EGT temps rising sharply.

I still want more power, I don't feel any real lack of traction if I don't floor it from reduced speeds. The DSG makes the engine be very progressive delivering the power. I'm waiting for a map tweak still.

You mean it feels less aggressive with DSG?   Did you have the 1:1 throttle map put on it?   Mine was aggressive when I bought it with Revo stage 1 (manual box) but since going 1:1 throttle, it makes more power, but doesn't FEEL like it does.  I want that aggression back.

When I've put the S3 IC on and APR downpipe, I'm going back to my mapper for some more tweaks and priority number 1 is to put the OEM throttle map back on 

[Shoduchi]

I still want more power, I don't feel any real lack of traction if I don't floor it from reduced speeds. The DSG makes the engine be very progressive delivering the power. I'm waiting for a map tweak still.

You mean it feels less aggressive with DSG?   Did you have the 1:1 throttle map put on it?   Mine was aggressive when I bought it with Revo stage 1 (manual box) but since going 1:1 throttle, it makes more power, but doesn't FEEL like it does.  I want that aggression back.

When I've put the S3 IC on and APR downpipe, I'm going back to my mapper for some more tweaks and priority number 1 is to put the OEM throttle map back on 

I mean that the DSG makes the power delivery more smooth due to its own torque limiters. I don't think my throttle map was changed. Even on WOT the engine has a smooth acceleration and just at reduced speeds I notice the traction control kicking in.

[pudding]

Picked up my S3 intercooler today.  Turns out my mate ordered the 2010 8P / MK6 R one which has plastic end tanks.  The 2007 S3 all metal one is now £430!!!

6R / S3 one is £240, so much more reasonable.  Going to use it as it's still bigger than the MK5 one and how much difference do metal end tanks make, realistically?

Does the 6R one fit a MK5?  It looks like it will, same angle outputs etc, but I'm not sure.

[v4rley]

how much difference do metal end tanks make, realistically?

Better cooling as all metal and also a much better connection.

[howie1987]

Picked up my S3 intercooler today.  Turns out my mate ordered the 2010 8P / MK6 R one which has plastic end tanks.  The 2007 S3 all metal one is now £430!!!

6R / S3 one is £240, so much more reasonable.  Going to use it as it's still bigger than the MK5 one and how much difference do metal end tanks make, realistically?

Does the 6R one fit a MK5?  It looks like it will, same angle outputs etc, but I'm not sure.

http://www.genuineautoparts.com/uk/oe-audi/1k0145803p

This not what your looking for? probably the plastic one you already got though at that price.

[pudding]

how much difference do metal end tanks make, realistically?

Better cooling as all metal and also a much better connection.

What I mean is, compared to the (thinner) MK5 cooler, what percentage of the S3's improvement comes from the larger surface area, or the metal end tanks?   I seem to remember someone mentioning a comparison between metal S3, 6R and an aftermarket one (Forge maybe) and there wasn't a lot in it.   I don't think the end tanks are in the air flow so much either?  Anyway, the 6R is a LOT cheaper than the metal S3 one :)

The 6R one has the same connections as the metal S3.