Shall I jump on the slope?

[driver rider]

So I've had my car for a while and due to London house prices I will be keeping it for the foreseeable future. I have decided that I want to give my car a new lease of life.  I am already getting it fully serviced and with all new fluids etc.  I'm flirting with different ideas.

The first thing I want to do is fit springs and anti-roll bars to tidy up the handling.  I find the car rolls a little too much when your keen!  This I am pretty sure I will be doing.  Is there anything else I can do to sharpen the handling up and feel of the car?

I need an exhaust.  Want more noise but it's a daily so nothing silly.  What should I be looking at?  I want to take it on track days as well so it must not exceed decibel limits of UK track circuits.  What options have I got?  I want something that just sounds more purposeful than what I currently have.  Just a little more sound when I'm giving it some beans would be lovely.

I am also looking at getting an intake.  Who should I be looking at in terms of brands etc?  Are there any drawbacks to fitting an intake.  Im in two minds about this worried about reliability and also that I may not even like the sound but lets see (or hear lol).  What are the advantages of an intake?

Lastly I will be getting a remap done.  I have decided that I will be going with R-tech for this.  I want to do the remap after getting engine mods etc done in order to make the most of the mods.

Any help or ideas is much appreciated.  Thanks gents and ladies ;-)

[AJP]

Handling-wise, H&R springs are very good and work well with oem shocks, and as well as anti roll bars look into an anti lift kit. The Superpro kit is well regarded. A dog bone (lower engine) mount insert also tightens things up nicely for little outlay.

Exhausts; if you're just after a subtle increase in noise then a cat back from Milltek or Powervalve (Resonated and Prestige options, respectively) will provide that. You can also do a pre cat delete on the standard downpipe along with that to open up the flow a little bit and gain some extra power. This alone creates a slightly deeper note, so along with a non-shouty catback you should get some nice tasteful noises. Bear in mind that a full turbo-back exhaust, or specifically a bigger downpipe with a decat or sport cat will net the best power gains, but it doesn't come cheap if you do it right. Again, Milltek and Powervalve are good.

Intakes; the jury's out. Some swear by them, others think they're a bit 'Emperor's New Clothes'. My personal opinion is that if you use a good kit, such as Revo, ITG or Ramair, and then get a custom map that gets the best out of it, they will help flow, and give you a few more ponies. Some people find them a bit noisy, but I guess that's subjective.

If you can stretch to it, a fuel pump (HPFP) upgrade will be a great mod. Loads of extra low and mid range torque. I'm personally going to do the fuel pump before and even if I get an intake.

[driver rider]

Handling-wise, H&R springs are very good and work well with oem shocks, and as well as anti roll bars look into an anti lift kit. The Superpro kit is well regarded. A dog bone (lower engine) mount insert also tightens things up nicely for little outlay.

Exhausts; if you're just after a subtle increase in noise then a cat back from Milltek or Powervalve (Resonated and Prestige options, respectively) will provide that. You can also do a pre cat delete on the standard downpipe along with that to open up the flow a little bit and gain some extra power. This alone creates a slightly deeper note, so along with a non-shouty catback you should get some nice tasteful noises. Bear in mind that a full turbo-back exhaust, or specifically a bigger downpipe with a decat or sport cat will net the best power gains, but it doesn't come cheap if you do it right. Again, Milltek and Powervalve are good.

Intakes; the jury's out. Some swear by them, others think they're a bit 'Emperor's New Clothes'. My personal opinion is that if you use a good kit, such as Revo, ITG or Ramair, and then get a custom map that gets the best out of it, they will help flow, and give you a few more ponies. Some people find them a bit noisy, but I guess that's subjective.

If you can stretch to it, a fuel pump (HPFP) upgrade will be a great mod. Loads of extra low and mid range torque. I'm personally going to do the fuel pump before and even if I get an intake.

Hi thank you for such a helpful post. 

I don't want to spend too much on the car its on well over 100k now however I do feel it'll make me enjoy my car that little bit more and for longer.  Perhaps my money would be better spent on a full turbo back exhaust and not bother with the intake.  When you say some people complain of too much noise is it the case of too "hissing and wooshing"?

In regards to handling I will look into getting lower engine mounts. Is this the anti-lift kit you where talking about?
http://www.awesomegti.com/shop-by-brand/superpro/superpro-anti-lift-kit-for-mk5-mk6-golf-type-chassis/

I don't know that I can stretch to a HPFP  as that would mean I'd be looking at a stage 2 map?

[AJP]

Yes, that's the anti lift kit.

As for mapping, if you're doing all the mods first and then mapping, the map won't cost you any more or less regardless of which 'stage' it is. You can do the whole works and go straight to a stage 2, 2+, 3 map, or beyond, depending on mods.

The 'stage' thing is more a marketing thing. Like a benchmark. Certain tuners require specific mods to work with their specific stages of map, but with R-Tech it's fully bespoke so you can have your own mix and match of mods of your choice and it'll be mapped to the best of their potential.

That said, R-Tech do stick the 'stage' label on their maps, roughly according to mods. So their Stage 1 is standard hardware (or pre cat delete), Stage 1+ is standard hardware (or pre cat delete) with an uprated fuel pump, Stage 2 is a full exhaust/decat downpipe, intake, uprated intercooler, Stage 2+ the same as 2 but also with an uprated fuel pump.

It's worth noting that these are guidelines rather than requirements with R-Tech. I know of someone on here that just had an uprated panel filter and full powervalve, and the map he got was labelled Stage 2.

I'm rambling a bit here, but in the simplest terms, a full exhaust qualifies you for Stage 2, and an uprated fuel pump is the '+'.

As for the intakes, a few people on here have taken them off and gone back to the standard panel filter as they found them a bit too hissy and wooshy, like you say!

[bbfb10]

@driver rider

Check out my build thread. Most of my mods were done cheaply by waiting until the part l wanted came up at a price l could justify. My car is on 158,000 miles and hasnt missed a beat.

[flashp]

From a stock car I'd go this route in this order, personal choice based on my experience. Everyone will be different!

1: Handling - At 100k miles you are planning on dampers as well aren't you?
I'd suggest a Bilstein B12 kit, pair of ARB's (I have Eibach and have been really happy with them - other brands are available!  ), Anti-lift kit, good geometry setup, and any worn/tired bushes, S3 alloy arms.

2: Brakes - OE brakes won't cut it on track. S3 rears (they're vented), 4 piston kit with light weight discs for the front. Many options available for the front.

3: Tyres - Michelin Pilot Super Sports

4: S3 intercooler or other. S3 is fine though.

5: Stage 1 map and HPFP. I believe stage 1 with a standard intake is better for everyday use. Torque band shifts further up the rev range with an intake, personal choice again.

[AJP]

Don't forget the new VWR dampers. Sound like a great option.

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=106418.msg1032431.msg#1032431

[driver rider]

Yes, that's the anti lift kit.

As for mapping, if you're doing all the mods first and then mapping, the map won't cost you any more or less regardless of which 'stage' it is. You can do the whole works and go straight to a stage 2, 2+, 3 map, or beyond, depending on mods.

The 'stage' thing is more a marketing thing. Like a benchmark. Certain tuners require specific mods to work with their specific stages of map, but with R-Tech it's fully bespoke so you can have your own mix and match of mods of your choice and it'll be mapped to the best of their potential.

That said, R-Tech do stick the 'stage' label on their maps, roughly according to mods. So their Stage 1 is standard hardware (or pre cat delete), Stage 1+ is standard hardware (or pre cat delete) with an uprated fuel pump, Stage 2 is a full exhaust/decat downpipe, intake, uprated intercooler, Stage 2+ the same as 2 but also with an uprated fuel pump.

It's worth noting that these are guidelines rather than requirements with R-Tech. I know of someone on here that just had an uprated panel filter and full powervalve, and the map he got was labelled Stage 2.

I'm rambling a bit here, but in the simplest terms, a full exhaust qualifies you for Stage 2, and an uprated fuel pump is the '+'.

As for the intakes, a few people on here have taken them off and gone back to the standard panel filter as they found them a bit too hissy and wooshy, like you say!

That again was a very helpful post.  Your not rambling at all AJP.  I am still weighing everything up.  It may simply come down to how much I can afford.  I am going to speak to Nige at some point tomorrow. 

The only thing is I've been stung with a big bill for my car today which is annoying.  I am pretty sold on getting an exhaust just need to make sure I get the right one.  Maybe I am missing something but I don't like the thought of a HPFP.  What does it actually entail?

[driver rider]

@driver rider

Check out my build thread. Most of my mods were done cheaply by waiting until the part l wanted came up at a price l could justify. My car is on 158,000 miles and hasnt missed a beat.

I am going to have a good read of this!

[driver rider]

From a stock car I'd go this route in this order, personal choice based on my experience. Everyone will be different!

1: Handling - At 100k miles you are planning on dampers as well aren't you?
I'd suggest a Bilstein B12 kit, pair of ARB's (I have Eibach and have been really happy with them - other brands are available!  ), Anti-lift kit, good geometry setup, and any worn/tired bushes, S3 alloy arms.

2: Brakes - OE brakes won't cut it on track. S3 rears (they're vented), 4 piston kit with light weight discs for the front. Many options available for the front.

3: Tyres - Michelin Pilot Super Sports

4: S3 intercooler or other. S3 is fine though.

5: Stage 1 map and HPFP. I believe stage 1 with a standard intake is better for everyday use. Torque band shifts further up the rev range with an intake, personal choice again.

1.  I got new rear dampers fitted to pass the MOT.  Looking back I should of taken the chance to upgrade them.  Which is an oversight on my part.

2. Gosh I hadn't thought of brakes.  I will only do at most two this year.  Will I still need to upgrade even for this light work?

3. May I ask why you recommend these tyres.  What about the michelin pilot sport cup 2? Or the Pirelli high performance tyres?  I ask looking for guidance and not because I know whats best.

4/5.  I don't want to move the torque curve upwards so I will probably not bother with upgrading the intake it sounds like its not a win situation for me.  I hadn't thought about the intercooler I don't want to go to far down the slope...

You've made me think about some interesting options!

[Dan_FR]

An intake doesn't shift the torque band at all. Turbo spool up 'can' be delayed ever so slightly but easily rectified when mapping. Yes they are loud and make lots of wooshy noises all of the time, but they free up hp at the upper end of the rev range without a doubt. If you like (or can live with) the wooshy noises then get one

If sticking with Stage 1 then the cats are the limiting factor so you won't gain too much with one. If you go stage 2 and get a decat turboback exhaust, then the intake will be the next limitation (in terms of peak hp) so it is definitely worth changing. The fuelling is the limitation of midrange torque, and once you've done the exhaust and intake, the turbo becomes the next limitation for peak hp.

If doing trackdays then an intercooler is 100% advised. S3 is adequate or any bolt-on direct replacement (China coolers sub £200) will do nicely. Brakes are 100% needed, they will start to fade within a few laps of track work and will quickly ruin your day as massive brake fade on track is not fun 

And finally..... When remapping a 100k+ car, expect to need a new clutch very shortly unless it's been changed. If not it is probably worth doing before mapping as if it slips on the dyno yo will end up with reduced torque to work around the clutch

[pudding]

You can't 'map out' a fundamental change in induction tuning.

Has anyone got a torque plot below 2500rpm where an aftermarket intake system matches or *betters* the OEM intake? 

I've read some posts on here from guys who've tried all of the intakes on the market and ended up going back to the OEM air box.

[Dan_FR]

Actually you can change the dynamics of the engine through cam timing changes etc. to the point where the difference is negligible

So how would a graph provide a fair comparison? If you only care about sub 2500rpm then why not buy a diesel or a naturally aspirated engine!? Why not a comparison of the full rpm range to show where there are losses and where there are gains in order to judge whether it is 'worth having'........ and would it be back to back or with mapping changes to take full advantage?

If intakes were a waste of money then why does everybody fit one? Anyone got a high power K03 or K04 on the standard airbox?

People seem to forget that there is always a trade off when modifying or changing parts. Removing a restrictive narrow intake will cause the air flow to slow which will hinder low end performance slightly (i.e. off boost driving), but provide gains when 'on boost' which should outweigh any negatives. I have a very free flowing intake and I have absolutely no noticeable loss of off boost performance, and the turbo is almost always there, spooling up and aiding performance, full boost is achieved well below 3k rpm...... so I'm yet to see a drawback... but then my MAF scaling is near perfect, idle trims within 1% and multiplicative hovering between -1 and -5% (due to meth - disable this and its within 2 or 3%)

That's the other thing people are always forgetting is MAF scaling and the difference it makes when swapping out to an intake without having the MAF scaling adjusted to suit. When I ran the RamAir MAF pipe on mine the car felt lethargic and registered peak MAF readings 30g/s lower than my current intake

Just winds me up when people slate or discourage others from using intakes when there are gains to be had, because somebody somewhere had a bad experience with one, or expects the car to respond just as well and there be no trade-off at all.... .If there was no trade-off then the manufacturers would fit a much more free-flowing induction system from factory..... but they don't..... Their priority is efficiency, fuel economy, minimum NVH etc. etc... not ultimate peak performance under WOT

[AJP]

I'm sure there's a thread for the intake debate guys, as much as you both make valid points.

Focusing on a full exhaust as the main outlay is probably the best plan @driver rider.

A full Powervalve will not be cheap, but I'd be willing to bet they flow better than any other exhaust on the market for our GTIs.

By far the biggest restriction on the TFSI is the puny downpipe. Which in itself houses the main cat and pre cat. All bad for flow, and bad for exhaust gas temperatures. This is largely why a typical Stage 1 map will only be programmed to push the boost so far. Opening up that restriction allows more leeway in the mapping, and therefore more power and torque is achieved.

In my case, I did things in the wrong order. I went to R-Tech for a Stage 1, and enjoyed that thoroughly for a while. Then I spoke to Nige and he agreed to run another group buy on his Powervalve exhausts. I had mine fitted a few months ago - full Powervalve with 200 cell sport cat. I'm down at R-Tech soon to have the map tweaked to account for the exhaust. This will effectively put my at Stage 2, or thereabouts.

I can honestly say the exhaust is phenomenal. Quality, fit, performance, noise and service from Nige and the team is right up there.

The fuel pump upgrade sounds  much more beneficial than an intake, to me. I'm looking at things from a 'what's next?' perspective, and from everything I've researched the fuel pump will give gains across the revs, whereas an intake is more of a top end boost. It's not a massive job to change pumps, it's all under the bonnet. The cam follower wears faster with an uprated pump, so that needs a bit more attention than usual, and you're likely to be stressing your standard clutch (if manual) with the extra levels of torque an uprated pump provides. The Helix Organic is a good choice. I've got one. Rated to 400lb/ft and feels really good.

You can go on forever, spend thousands, for diminishing returns. And it's hard to stop...!

[AJP]

Oh and it's an important point that flashp makes about brakes. If you're tracking it, arguably it would be wise to uprate the brakes before you even touch the engine.

The standard brakes overheat really easily. I managed to cook mine after about 20 minutes over the Welsh mountains a while ago. Massive fade. Scary.

S3/R32 fronts are the most basic upgrade. The calipers are heavy though, as are the 345mm discs, although I think you can use the slightly lighter 340mm Audi TTS discs with those calipers without the need for an adaptor bracket.

Then there's the 4 piston TTRS caliper. I'll be going for these along with TTS discs and adaptors. The piston area on these isn't out of comfortable tolerance for the GTI master cylinder, unlike some larger 6 piston calipers that seem popular.

Plenty of threads to research on brakes.