Seems I need some new mods to get a map

[PhilNUK]

hi guys

I have an Ed30 with BCS prestige system with sports cat and Revo Induction.... Just messaged R-Tech and apparently I will need to go Stage 2 and bypass Stage 1...

which is cool, but now I need to source an RS4 valve (seen some at awesome so will get one from them) and a front mounted intercooler..

Anyone know whats a good front mounted intercooler to go for? I don't want to pay through the nose though as didn't realise I couldn't go Stage 1 so this is extra cost I didn't account for.

cheers for any help and links

Phil

[AJP]

Hi mate. I recently went Stage 2 R-Tech, also with a full Powervalve with sport cat, and a Pipercross panel filter. Those were the only engine mods.

After the map it would often get fuel cuts under load. I got it scanned, which confirmed I was falling a fair bit short of meeting requested fuel pressure. I then had a Loba uprated fuel pump fitted, and was advised that an RS4 fuel return valve would also help (I'll be getting an RS4 valve very soon). It's worth remembering the RS4 valve is only really beneficial if your pump itself can meet requested fuel pressure. So I'd look at getting an uprated pump as a priority, as well as an RS4 return valve. This will be more beneficial than an intercooler at this point.

However, if you do have the budget, a Peron intercooler is one of the best on the market for k04 cars. A more affordable option is an S3 or mk6 R intercooler. Still miles better than the ed30 cooler but maybe not quite as effective as a Peron or Stage 2 Airtec.

I wasn't expecting fuel cuts just with a Stage 2 map, but it seems the map was requesting loads more fuel pressure than the standard pump could provide. I'm still on the Stage 2 map, and it's running beautifully now. Had I known before the map that I'd run into fuelling issues I would have fitted the Loba, an intake and an uprated intercooler, then gone for the full fat Stage 2+ map. Maybe that'd be an option you should consider.

[flashp]

If you're unlucky you can get a poor AFR at stage 1. The OE pump can be a bit marginal at certain revs.

[Spankiee]

awwwww man I've got the same mods and they told me i have to go to stage 2 aswell. i only want like 300hp though stage 1 would do me. but he said he wouldn't do that.

i don't want fuel cuts 

[AJP]

If you're unlucky you can get a poor AFR at stage 1. The OE pump can be a bit marginal at certain revs.

Yep, it's one area where the TFSI could have done with a better pump from the factory. I understand the later TSI engines don't have this problem?

My advice to anyone taking things seriously, even mild tuning to Stage 1/2 levels, is to prioritise the pump before other bolt-ons.

Downpipe and pump are the first bottlenecks to address.

[flashp]

Stage 1 was cheap for me as I had no other hardware. I quickly realised that when I went to stage 2 the hardware requirements made it an expensive leap to do it properly and hard to do in stages to break the cost down because there are so many things that rely on each other to avoid issues. Been rock solid for a long time now.

[rich83]

You dont need an RS4 valve at stage 2 level.

[AJP]

You dont need an RS4 valve at stage 2 level.

I always thought that too. But, if a guy that builds engines like Steve does tells me it'd be worthwhile, I'll listen.

Suppose a lot depends on the map though. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that one Stage 2 car requests more fuel than another Stage 2 car, especially if both are custom mapped.

Let's say Car A just about qualifies for 'Stage 2' with a less than favourable hardware setup, and as such gets mapped accordingly. Car B has an optimal hardware setup and also gets a 'Stage 2' map. Yet, car B's map requests more fuel than car A's, due to better flow, lower EGTs, and so on. Not all Stage 2 cars are equal. Case in point of why labelling custom maps with 'Stage' this and 'Stage' that is misleading.

I know traditionally the RS4 valve was only deemed a necessity on a 2+ k04 setup. But if you think about the mechanics of fuel delivery on the TFSI, and how R-Tech in particular are squeezing more and more torque out of these engines - at low-mid revs where it needs all the fuel it can get - there's every reason why even a k03 car on a demanding fuel map might benefit from an RS4 return valve. As well as a proper pump, which goes without saying.

[rich83]

Unless the ecu is requesting more than 130bar the the rs4 valve isn't needed.

I'm stage 2 and mines doesn't request more than 130bar. OEM pump. And therefore the rs4 valve wouldnt make any difference

[AJP]

In your case, on your map, then no it wouldn't.

But this is exactly my point. It's a flawed argument to state that because one particular Stage 2 car doesn't need an uprated pump or would benefit from an RS4 return valve, then no other Stage 2 car would either.

Again, this 'Stage' categorisation sometimes muddies the water.

I should have got a printout of the logging from a couple of weeks ago.

[rich83]

So even though the OEM pump won't exceed 130bar and the OEM FPRV is rated at 130bar.... You think a 145bar FPRV will make a difference WITH AN OEM PUMP??

With an upgraded HPFP... Different story.


And I'm out......

[AJP]

So even though the OEM pump won't exceed 130bar and the OEM FPRV is rated at 130bar.... You think a 145bar FPRV will make a difference WITH AN OEM PUMP??

With an upgraded HPFP... Different story.


And I'm out......

No!!!! When did I say that?!

Of course you need an uprated pump to make use of an RS4 valve!

Are you reading things properly, Rich?

Bizarre.

[Dan_FR]

Sometimes the OE valve cracks before 130 Bar..... and sometimes (at certain revs) the pump might be capable of more than 130 bar, and if this is requested by Niki in the mapping, then an RS4 valve will be beneficial. The RS4 valve is 136 bar from memory - not a lot of difference, but those extra few bar may be all that's needed

Revo stick to 130 Bar pressure (as does my Revo map) so there no benefit to us (me and Rich).

I'd reccomend an RS4 valve and uprated pump though. Transforms the midrange

[AJP]

I get this, Dan. I just think Rich has completely got the wrong end of the stick with this. Which is unusual, as he always comes across as intelligent.

@Rich83 Please read the whole thread again.

I had a Stage 2 R-Tech map. Got fuel cuts. Took it to Statller. Confirmed through logging that actual was well short of requested. Then upgraded the pump to a Loba. At this point, Steve advised me that the RS4 valve would be of further benefit. Which is what I've been saying all along.

It's clear that some 'Stage 2' maps request more than the 130 bar the oem pump can produce. And again, use of inverted commas is intentional.

You get me blud?!

[bonelorry]

hi guys

I have an Ed30 with BCS prestige system with sports cat and Revo Induction.... Just messaged R-Tech and apparently I will need to go Stage 2 and bypass Stage 1...

which is cool, but now I need to source an RS4 valve (seen some at awesome so will get one from them) and a front mounted intercooler..

Anyone know whats a good front mounted intercooler to go for? I don't want to pay through the nose though as didn't realise I couldn't go Stage 1 so this is extra cost I didn't account for.

cheers for any help and links

Phil

AFAIK and as listed on R-Techs website the RS4 valve is not required on an ED30 until the the HPFP has been replaced and then it would be Stage 2+.

Hardware Combination of tuning level options K04 TFSI:

Stage 1 =  Any hardware upgrade as long as cats stay stock
Stage 1+= Stock car with just cats removed HPFP & air filter upgrade
Stage 2  = Intercooler – induction kit – full performance exhaust
Stage 2+= HPFP – intercooler – induction kit – full performance exhaust – RS4 pressure valve
Stage 3 = Stage2+ hardware upgrades with Loba TTE or  BBT K04 Hybrid turbo upgrades with a 155bar pressure valve and water meth injection.