All Things Mk5 > Performance Modifications
Intake waste of money?
bonelorry:
--- Quote from: Pudding on September 23, 2016, 10:34:42 am ---Some bold claims for the VWR one. Up to +9% peak power and turbo spool reduced by 500rpm. The latter I'm a little skeptical of personally, given it's the turbine wheel / housing that has the biggest influence on spool up :smiley:
They don't state under what conditions and mechanical spec you get those gains. For example, do you need a full exhaust to see those improvements? And at what boost pressure and rpm do you see that +9% increase in hp?
£450 is a lot to take a punt on it, based on vague sales pitching.
I suspect VW Racing saw those gains on their own racing car, which runs shed loads of boost, full exhaust etc etc. I reckon a mild stage 1 tune with just a DP would probably see about +5% because at 1.4-1.5 bar, the turbo isn't struggling that badly to get air in. So around 15hp for £450? I don't really see that as a good £ per hp investment personally, but that's only because that kind of money is almost a VWR spring a damper set, which would give more profound and noticeable gains from the get go :)
--- End quote ---
I would assume that those types of gains would be achieved when the Standard Air-box assembly and intake are becoming a restriction and the weakest point in the set-up. On an Edition 30 this would probably be beyond 300BHP or a good Stage 1.
My Golf R made 313BHP on the Stock Air-Box which is the same as the ED30 set up.
I have seen cars with Evoms and Revo intakes make similar figures to my own cars which have both have stock set ups although this is at Stage 1, However as you mentioned the Exhaust is the restriction beyond Stage 1!
Not sure what the limits are on the stock Airbox?
When I was dealing with tuning Saab's a few Years back the Standard Air-Box on the 9-3's would support 400BHP happily!
Shoduchi:
--- Quote from: bonelorry on September 23, 2016, 10:59:42 am ---I would assume that those types of gains would be achieved when the Standard Air-box assembly and intake are becoming a restriction and the weakest point in the set-up. On an Edition 30 this would probably be beyond 300BHP or a good Stage 1.
My Golf R made 313BHP on the Stock Air-Box which is the same as the ED30 set up.
I have seen cars with Evoms and Revo intakes make similar figures to my own cars which have both have stock set ups although this is at Stage 1, However as you mentioned the Exhaust is the restriction beyond Stage 1!
Not sure what the limits are on the stock Airbox?
When I was dealing with tuning Saab's a few Years back the Standard Air-Box on the 9-3's would support 400BHP happily!
--- End quote ---
My Ed. 30 with petrol 98 made 330 CV multiple times on the dyno. My tuner told me the airbox wasn't restricting the power at this point (my current tuning is requesting 1.4 bar of stable boost). He wasn't willing to push the engine and DSG more at this point, to keep everything reliable. He was more worried about increasing the torque than anything else. He offered me instead the option of getting petrol 100 if I wanted more power.
From what I read in this forum from Niki Gower the airbox can handle 330-340 BHP. Beyond that it's restrictive.
AJP:
Here's a curveball then... Niki told me that the drop off in power at the top of my rev range was because of my standard airbox (Stage 2 k03).
Interesting claims with VWR. I've heard that Niki likes the Revo intake. To be honest I don't think an intake alone is going to make a huge difference to the top end of a k03 car. I'll get a better turbo for that, and probably stick an intake on to help it flow a little more while I'm at it.
Shoduchi:
I had the DSG tuned and the rpm limited upped from 6500 rpm to 7000 rpm. Unfortunately the power stabilised at 330 CV from 6500-7000 rpm. Maybe I'd get more with a more open intake. Just not sure if the money is worth it. I might in the future try the VWR intake.
pudding:
Good info about the Ed30 vs GTI OEM paper filter. I didn't know that! So it has the same amount of pleats, just not as thick?
330-350hp seems a reasonable restriction limit for the factory airbox. If it were THAT restrictive, paper filters would buckle and distort and the intake tube / airbox would collapse under max boost / rpm, like humans inhaling on a crisp packet.
--- Quote from: AJP on September 23, 2016, 12:09:49 pm ---Here's a curveball then... Niki told me that the drop off in power at the top of my rev range was because of my standard airbox (Stage 2 k03).
Interesting claims with VWR. I've heard that Niki likes the Revo intake. To be honest I don't think an intake alone is going to make a huge difference to the top end of a k03 car. I'll get a better turbo for that, and probably stick an intake on to help it flow a little more while I'm at it.
--- End quote ---
That looks like a normal K03 curve to me. It does start to run out of puff past 5500 like that anyway and the two lines neatly converge at 6000, where it has little more to give. I can't see an intake making a huge difference, although replacing the standard thing with a big pipe is always going to improve flow into the turbo a bit, well, into the MAF housing at least. You might find perhaps, a realistic 10hp up there with a decent intake on the K03?
Turbo engines are fighting two pressure differentials. The exhaust gases leaving the cylinder, and the boost pressure entering it. The turbo struggling to draw enough air in ranks quite far behind those two challenges and only becomes a factor when they've both been freed off as much as possible. Any power you do find from an intake is always right at the top end, where not that many of us drive at for very long! I can't remember the last time I exceeded 7000rpm!
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