Intake waste of money?

[Ollieeee]

Mine hit 249bhp and 301ft/lb at R-Tech with panel filter, good figures but Niki said to go any higher it would need an intake as the airbox was restricting it. So as said, depends how far you're wanting to push your figures.

Also, panel filter is sold (I think) just waiting on the money, sorry!

[Dan_FR]

Thanks for the info Dan, I'm not planning on stage 2 whatever that's defined as, I'll perhaps do the first few easy mods usually nice sounding exhaust and a sports cat as you say that's a big restriction and I'd usually do an intake but if it doesn't make any difference in power on basically a standard car then I'd sooner save my £250 or put it to better use, basically I'm asking what are the first few mods usually done if an intake isn't one of them, hopefully you know what I mean 

Generally with these cars, any mapping with the stock cats in place is 'Stage 1' and anything with a sports or de-cat is 'stage 2'.... as this requires different mapping both in terms of fuel strategy and adjusting the emissions maps to stop the EML being triggered.

If you'll be stopping at just a remap, then a panel filter and perhaps knocking the pre-cat out (easy DIY - plenty of guides on here) may be the way to go

[spwd]

Yeah that sounds about right Dan, so I get a panel filter or try to find a bargain intake as it won't do any harm if I CAN find one then take the cat off and smash all the crap out the inside then put a cat back exhaust on and a remap and should be around 230bhp or is that hoping too much lol, also is the dsg remap worth doing at any stage.

I'll  start my own thread when I get my car lol, infact I'll start one now and thanks for letting me know @Ollieeee 

[pudding]

Just read this thread and will be picking up my 06 dsg gti this week and usually I guess an intake is the first thing done on many cars but you guys are saying they're not worth the expense and I'd be better off buying a panel filter like the one @Ollieeee  is selling?

 When I had my MR2 Turbo a few years back the intake and intercooler made a massive difference so what's the difference?

I suspect either the MR2 factory components weren't particularly good in the first place, or the MR2 head flows more than the VW one does.

What difference did you find, out of interest, with no other changes?

[pudding]

Mine hit 249bhp and 301ft/lb at R-Tech with panel filter, good figures but Niki said to go any higher it would need an intake as the airbox was restricting it. So as said, depends how far you're wanting to push your figures.

Also, panel filter is sold (I think) just waiting on the money, sorry!

Again, did he elude to how much extra power would be liberated, with no other changes?  Is yours on the standard exhaust and downpipe?

[spwd]

Just read this thread and will be picking up my 06 dsg gti this week and usually I guess an intake is the first thing done on many cars but you guys are saying they're not worth the expense and I'd be better off buying a panel filter like the one @Ollieeee  is selling?

 When I had my MR2 Turbo a few years back the intake and intercooler made a massive difference so what's the difference?

I suspect either the MR2 factory components weren't particularly good in the first place, or the MR2 head flows more than the VW one does.

What difference did you find, out of interest, with no other changes?

I had a 3" exhaust, an intake and knocked the cat out but getting a new downpipe adds more bhp I believe and boost turned up, can't remember how much but it wasn't anywhere close to max plus I never fitted a better intercooler and got 285bhp on a Dyno run from a quoted 245 as standard and a personal best of 13.2 at santa pod, although I believe I could have got under 13 secs and I had to prove this time before it went on the MR2 forum so I'm not making it up so pretty decent gains for not much outlay and modification, such a fantastic and fast engine/car even standard they are around 5.2 0-60 , I had some fun  a few times with a local Z3m 320+ bhp as standard I believe on a private road and he couldn't get away from me and I was actually catching him so easy "first" upgrades as I said made a massive difference that's why I asked because of my experience.

Also the chargecooler from the celica gt4 made even more difference than a performance intercooler.

[pudding]

Good stuff!

I agree with you on chargecoolers.  Fit the right one and they can be way better than air-air intercoolers, and considerably more responsive (close to zero lag, depending on turbo sizing).   The only down side is the extra baggage of carrying water around.  I had a setup that had a 3 gallon tank in the boot    It was insanely good at keeping intake temps down though.

[Speedy83]

Will there be any differens at all between going with a pipercross or ITG panel filter or are they pretty much same thing?

I know a panel filter per se wont give much power but anyway.

[AJP]

Will there be any differens at all between going with a pipercross or ITG panel filter or are they pretty much same thing?

I know a panel filter per se wont give much power but anyway.

Not discernably. You might notice a difference going from a filthy clogged up panel to a new one, but between brands I'd put my money on the differences being miniscule.

[Mackaa-123]

I was planning on buying a ram air induction kit, but a friend who does remaps told me that some gtis and hatchbacks hes had at his had just been smothered by the i inductions kits. Are they even worth buying?

[Charlie23]

Just to add my 2pence worth that might help out.

I'm APR stage 1 and had a Evoms fitted a day after the map and the car sounded great but couldn't really say it made a difference but the noise felt like it was. Anyway I started to get compressor surge had it Rolling road etc etc and spoke to a very clever guy that told me I was getting to much cold air, that's what's causing your surge sound between 2500 & 4000 rpm.

After a few days I though nah can't be right. Few more days passed with it playing on my mind, to much cold air I didn't want to believe it, so I took the Evoms off and put standard air box back on and bought a Pipper Cross panel filter. All I can say is wow, the difference is unbelievable.

No more surge, no more stupid boost leak sound, the revs pic up a lot faster and the car just feel and seems to run a whole lot better. And put a smile back on my face.

The very clever guy I spoke to tunes cars for Racing etc and fair play knew his stuff, and told ,me the only way you will benefit from a CAI is when you get to stage 2+ as the map, fueling etc all alter so the extra air is needed, but at stage one its not worth the money and also alters the performance.

I know some people might not agree but that just my view and my findings from having Evoms and then Pannel filter so thought it might help someone out. 

[pudding]

Just to add my 2pence worth that might help out.

I'm APR stage 1 and had a Evoms fitted a day after the map and the car sounded great but couldn't really say it made a difference but the noise felt like it was. Anyway I started to get compressor surge had it Rolling road etc etc and spoke to a very clever guy that told me I was getting to much cold air, that's what's causing your surge sound between 2500 & 4000 rpm.

After a few days I though nah can't be right. Few more days passed with it playing on my mind, to much cold air I didn't want to believe it, so I took the Evoms off and put standard air box back on and bought a Pipper Cross panel filter. All I can say is wow, the difference is unbelievable.

No more surge, no more stupid boost leak sound, the revs pic up a lot faster and the car just feel and seems to run a whole lot better. And put a smile back on my face.

The very clever guy I spoke to tunes cars for Racing etc and fair play knew his stuff, and told ,me the only way you will benefit from a CAI is when you get to stage 2+ as the map, fueling etc all alter so the extra air is needed, but at stage one its not worth the money and also alters the performance.

I know some people might not agree but that just my view and my findings from having Evoms and then Pannel filter so thought it might help someone out. 

It doesn't surprise me to be honest.  Factory cars are tuned from intake snorkel to tailpipe as one big symbiotic whole.  One thing affects the other, sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way, but all things are considered to give the best compromise.  A good example of this was in my R32 days, binning the OEM cats absolutely killed the bottom end torque.   VW factored in that 'restriction' to the overall tuning.  It's hard to believe such a simple change can have such an adverse affect, but fluid dynamics must rate second to brain surgery and rocket science for complexity.

It's often reported that K04s surge around 23-34psi at 3000rpm, just because: it's what they do, but no one ever says with what intake or exhaust.  So thanks for bringing some extra info to the table :)  Mine doesn't surge either and I also run the factory air box.  I am extremely reluctant to change it, even with the TTE420 upgrade I've got planned.

The thing that separates the good aftermarket parts from the bad ones is R&D.  TyrolSport and VW Racingline are good examples of decent R&D.  Expensive, sure, but they don't take anything away from the car's original character, only improve on it.

Glad you've found a compromise you're happy with 

[bonelorry]

I can't say I am experiencing any negative effects running a Revo Intake, I am a big fan of running the OE Airbox and have done on previous cars but on the Golf R I plan on going beyond Stage 1 and so the Airbox has had to go.

I saw an Audi S3 8P in at R-Tech recently for a Stage 2 Map, Hardware wise it had a Full BCS Turbo Back Exhaust but was running the stock Airbox. It made 317BHP & 332LB/FT.

Another S3, Similar car but Stage 1 with the Pre-Cat removed and running a Revo Intake....330BHP & 338LB/FT.

Niki said that the Hardware was holding the Stage 2 powered car back, It should have been around the 340BHP mark.

I know they are different cars and not all cars perform the same.

If I could have got away with keeping the stock airbox and going Stage 2 or 2+ then I would have but it will become a Major restriction at those levels.

[Shoduchi]

Now I'm not feeling that bad for the 335,5 CV and around 337 lbft my engine makes with the octane booster and ITG panel filter, full 3" TBE and a LOBA HPFP. 

[pudding]

I can't say I am experiencing any negative effects running a Revo Intake, I am a big fan of running the OE Airbox and have done on previous cars but on the Golf R I plan on going beyond Stage 1 and so the Airbox has had to go.

I saw an Audi S3 8P in at R-Tech recently for a Stage 2 Map, Hardware wise it had a Full BCS Turbo Back Exhaust but was running the stock Airbox. It made 317BHP & 332LB/FT.

Another S3, Similar car but Stage 1 with the Pre-Cat removed and running a Revo Intake....330BHP & 338LB/FT.

Niki said that the Hardware was holding the Stage 2 powered car back, It should have been around the 340BHP mark.

I know they are different cars and not all cars perform the same.

If I could have got away with keeping the stock airbox and going Stage 2 or 2+ then I would have but it will become a Major restriction at those levels.

Is the airbox bad on the Golf R then?  I've seen a few videos on shopdap.com of various MK7 upgrades and they look pretty decent!

Tbh, that is just one tuners findings and it kind of puts into debate as to whether or not a full 3" TBE is worth it if S3 #1 made less power than S3 #2 with a factory exhaust     And our resident Mr Shoduchi has 340hp from the factory airbox     And let's not forget, the difference between S3 #1 and S3 #2 is only about 5%.   There would be no difference on the road between the 2 cars, but some people do rather get hung up on the peak hp numbers   

Did the Stage 2 car have a Loba pump and what boost pressure is R-Tech Stage 2? Is the S3 airbox the same as the Golf one?  I can't see it holding back the power that much.  Something else is required on that car I'd say, but interesting info all the same!

I'd love put Racingline's intake claim of +25hp to the test on my car, but it's a £450 experiment I can't afford at the moment!