HPFP at what point??

[RedRobin]

....

Once you have decided at what point to fit a HPFP, the next question has to be which one? And so we have to grasp the nettle of Autotech vs APR.

It's well known that the earlier Autotech pumps had problems but I understand that those issues have been resolved. Certainly a car such as Jonny's is a good testament to the Autotech's reliability but for a supplier such as JKM to feel they can support it they would have to yet again test it numerous times.

However critical one is about APR's promotional methods and high retail price, the fact is that their HPFP has been thoroughly developed, extremely well tested and proven to be reliable - The Scirocco 24hrs and Championship Leon's are testament to that for example. What helps that is the APR being a complete unit rather than just internals which have to be installed by the consumer or a third-party workshop - A clinically clean environment for installation is essential or you risk introducing problematic variables. The APR pump is fit-and-forget and gives peace of mind.

Revo recommend the Autotech and what's especially valuable about the Revo remaps is the ability to fine tune the Boost/Timing/Fuel and hence better protect and accommodate a variety of ongoing performance hardware modifications. In my particular case, this allows me to take time to consider my options while still achieving a healthy and well balanced car. Balance is what it's all about imo rather than always seeking the max. Lots of car enthusiasts seek the absolute max: Max power and max for minimum money - But some of us are different.

Price inevitably raises its ugly head and most people constantly seek to pay as little as possible with an expectation for as much as possible in return for their money. The APR is very expensive and the Autotech is much much cheaper - Hmmm, you'll have to make up your own mind. I favour sitting back for now - My car's ECU adjusts fuelling without problems as needed within my Boost setting and delivers very enjoyable and respectable power even if it's not reaching its maximum potential. I'm happy with the balance.

If/when I do decide to get a HPFP it'll probably be the APR, fitted by JKM and fully supported. But I expect I'll get an intercooler first.

[tony_danza]

In the interests of balance Robin, rather than posting a load of hearsay, I can give you Claudio at Autotechs email address and phone number, I know him quite well. The other side of the story is just as interesting.

I'm not going to defend anyone, they're big enough to do it themselves, but posting that kind of crap is just rediculous, ill-informed and biased.

[SteveP]

^^^^ Well said Mike 

Robin, these kinds of posts really don't help anyone and just drag this site in the kind of "heated" discussions we see over the pond, as you know this is not something we welcome here.

[MAT ED30]

Robin you know we all love u but sometimes you talk crap and are always jumping on the bandwagon of the big tuners and say they are the best and everything else is the cheaper option and everything on your car is the best and u know its best as thats what u have been told by these people like jkm and others. I for one only use VWR simply as i have known Mat for a long time and he is a mate of mine from the air  cooled scene and have made very good friends with the other staff and i think its good to have a race team/company out there that will test things to death and also help u if you have a problem.I dont run a uprated pump on my car yet and i for one would not go apr due to cost and the fact that all they have done is to put in an apr version of the others into a stock pump so the price is crazy  .
ifact if we want to start saying products are crap or paying more gets u a better product well osir bonnet springs to mind   i would have gone vwr real carbonfiber  and not paid the price from osir   its all about VFM 
Love u Robin and u know u we all do
y am i going on  

[RedRobin]

^^^^
Ok, so some of you aren't interested in a site member (myself in this case) sharing information, opinions and reasons of choice about the HPFP's which are currently available in the context of a thread about when to install a HPFP.

It's only my individual view, why get so fussed about it?

I'm just openly expressing one point of view or reasoning for choice rather than wishing to encourage any heated discussions. However, in hindsight I can see that my post might be interpreted as trashing Autotech when in fact all I think is that the APR pump is a preferable option for me and possibly others.

P.S. - I love you too, Mat! I would have chosen the VWR carbon bonnet over my OSIR but they weren't producing it at the time.

[MAT ED30]

   i think the best thing to help u Robin is to have 2 cars in the same state of tune one running apr pump one running another make running same settings on revo and both plugged into vag com so u can see if there is anything in them to warrant the crazy price of the apr pump 

[RedRobin]

^^^^
Yep, I agree the APR price is what's called ludricous but the question is more about reliability than logs. But hey, let's not start an unpopular discussion which risks heated argument - You're calm and I'm calm but not everyone else might stay so.

[KRL]

The thing is Robin there is absolutely no real world evidence out there that the APR pump is more reliable than any others.  There is only hearsay.

As somebody said earlier on this thread - can you name anybody with non-apr uprated HPFP that has had a failure?

[vRS Carl]

I know of one autotech failure but wether it was due to failure or his ham fisted approach to fitting is debateable ( personally I feel it was the later as I have had mine for 40. And not had a problem. )

Carl

[tony_danza]

No, what you’ve done is a self indulgent diatribe into the ins and outs of hearsay.

Here’s how I see your post with a critique.

Autotech in the very early stages of production had a bad batch. This was identified and rectified years ago. No cars were affected.

JKM won’t supply/fit an Autotech pump. I understand their position and respect it, I don’t have a problem with JKM’s stance. “tedium” is another factor, so it isn’t all down to the pump quality, is it?

Every other tuner in the UK will gladly fit you an Autotech pump and it will be fine. VWR will fit one, I even bet Awesome would fit you one. There have been NO failures I am aware of, so it can’t be that hard eh? The potential for failure is of course there though, so best left to an expert rather than a home DIY job.

You cannot prove that APR’s pump has been any more well developed or tested than the competition. You only have their word.
You cannot prove they replace their pump internals in any cleaner/better an environment potentially than the competitions, somewhere along the line with both pumps the internals have to be swapped. You only have their word.
You cannot prove their pump performs any better than the competition, or is any more “fit and forget”. You only have their word.

APR mapped the Scirocco race car. It stands to reason they’d use their own pump. Likewise the Leon. How many examples of race cars did you give with the Autotech pump? Biased.

With the benefit of Captain Subtext, you’re implying that Revo’s recommendation of Autotech pumps is biased because they don’t get on with APR. Ring Kev/Carl up and tell them what you’ve posted, I’m sure they’ll be delighted with you. For what it is worth, when I have spoken to either of them and mentioned an APR product in the last 5 years I’ve been dealing with them, they’ve always been positive towards them.

So, unless someone can prove otherwise I see it like this.

Both pumps do exactly the same thing, the only difference is paying APR the labour to do the build. This does have its benefits, as there’s no arguments should it be done incorrectly and there’s only one place to take it back to should it fail. But should you have someone competent enough to do the install for you, you can save yourself hundreds of pounds.

I’m sure if JKM were still doing both, you’d trust them to fit an Autotech one?   

[tony_danza]

I honestly don't have a problem with you giving you opinion and reasons for your choices, but as Matt alluded to, they are always with an added slant.

Everything you post up is basically "these are my opinions and choices, these are the best without question. Everything else is sh*t, everyone else is wrong"... with an "ETTO" caveat.

What I don't know though is why you do it? Is it to justify the decisions to yourself, or convince others into your way of thinking?

Individual choice is just that and fact is fact - leave the hearsay bullsh*t out of it, we're not in America.

I like you Robin, I respect a lot of what you say and your values, but Christ do you get carried away!!

[RedRobin]

No, what you’ve done is a self indulgent diatribe into the ins and outs of hearsay.

....I don't take kindly to the "self indulgent diatribe" accusation. If you want continued respect from me you had better afford me some respect irrespective of whether you agree with my views.

The rest of your post I understand and see the validity of your points. The importance of using an expert for installation is the same point I made. I don't doubt that Revo have already read my words and I have no problem with that - They already know that I am someone who is expressive of my views whether right or wrong.

Yes, if JKM were still doing both then of course I would trust them to fit an Autotech if it was the HPFP they recommended. I have to say that I don't know how APR justify the price of their pump but I do like what I hear about it.

I'm in many ways glad I posted what I did if only to bring out other people's views as well.


P.S. - I have just seen your Reply #40 and had best answer that separately in an effort to help you understand me better and maintain the peace between us. Then hopefully this thread can get back on topic.

[RedRobin]

I honestly don't have a problem with you giving you opinion and reasons for your choices, but as Matt alluded to, they are always with an added slant.

Everything you post up is basically "these are my opinions and choices, these are the best without question. Everything else is sh*t, everyone else is wrong"... with an "ETTO" caveat.

What I don't know though is why you do it? Is it to justify the decisions to yourself, or convince others into your way of thinking?

Individual choice is just that and fact is fact - leave the hearsay bullsh*t out of it, we're not in America.

I like you Robin, I respect a lot of what you say and your values, but Christ do you get carried away!!

....Surely everyone's opinions are based on what they believe is best. I share my views why I prefer one product to another - I don't suggest that everything else is sh*t unless I really believe that to be the case. I don't think the Autotech is sh*t - I just think the APR pump is better (for reasons already posted).

I'm not on any mission to convince others but I am here to share my opinions and to learn from others and even modify or change my opinions accordingly. I'm disappointed if you can't see that.

I actually hope to help others by contributing posts here but I always want others not to just listen to me but listen to other views as well and then make up their own minds.

The difference between here and the typical American forums is that here we can disagree and discuss everything calmly (as we all know) but it's accusations of self indulgent diatribes which veer towards the American style. Though across the pond they usually resort to stronger personal insults.

[tony_danza]

No, what you’ve done is a self indulgent diatribe into the ins and outs of hearsay.

....I don't take kindly to the "self indulgent diatribe" accusation. If you want continued respect from me you had better afford me some respect irrespective of whether you agree with my views.

It wasn't an accusation or an insult, more a my head in my hands "good grief" moment. I'm sorry.

Ok, I'll re-word it:

"No, what you’ve done is a post un-necessarily padded out with hearsay instead of fact."

I understand your intentions and reasonings behind your posts, but when I look at them from an outsiders point of view I see what I said. Many others have said this too.

Can I suggest you maybe just concentrate on saying why you've chosen something, and leave out any other tuner/product in your attempt to bring balance. If you don't mention the "other" at all, your opinion of them can't be mis-understood.

[QD MBE]

Open and honest springs to mind.................... But based on fact.