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Author Topic: Removing Swirls Black Paint  (Read 12200 times)

Offline Lucastheone92

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Re: Removing Swirls Black Paint
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2016, 10:22:49 am »
Check out my thread on the Members Rides section, I recently did my Diamond Black ED30 using the Megs 105/205 combo, Also did Fallout remover and De-tar prior to polishing and finished with Collinites 845 Wax.
What's the benefit of using both 105 and 205? I've just read on their website that they both have similar benefits e.g. Removed swirls. Could 205 just be using to both make glossy finish and remove swirls ?


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Firstly depends on many factors, Yes they both do the same job but at differing levels. Also paint type makes a massive difference for example VW Paint is quite hard and requires a more aggressive cut such as Megs 105 to achieve any decent levels of correction, Paint on Japanese cars can be quite soft in comparison so you might be able to get away with using Megs 205.

So on VW paint you could just use Megs 205 and a White Hex Pad, This would be classed as a Single Stage and would clean the paint up and remove very Minor swirls/defects. However you would not remove any deeper swirls and once the sunlight hits the paintwork they will be visible.

Megs 105 has a more aggressive cut as does using the Orange Hex Pad too, This combination offers a better level of correction and will remove more severe swirls, Bird poop marks, Defects but the downside is you do not get a very good finish afterwords. So you use the 205 Combo to finish/refine.

Megs 105 = Compound/Cutting
Megs 205 = Refining/Finishing

Adding to the above the choice of Pad that you use also plays a big part, I think in the Hex-Logic range which I use their are approx 6 different pads available ranging from Heavy Cut to Finishing. You have to experiment with the different combinations to see which one works for you and gives the best level of correction.

I always say start out with the least aggressive and work your way up.
Ok thanks that makes sense. Which pads do you use for 105 and 205? My paint work isn't really bad but I doubt it's ever had this 2 stage treatment before.


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Offline bonelorry

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Re: Removing Swirls Black Paint
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2016, 11:15:40 am »
Ok thanks that makes sense. Which pads do you use for 105 and 205? My paint work isn't really bad but I doubt it's ever had this 2 stage treatment before.

105 with Orange Hex Pad
205 with White Hex Pad

DAS-6 Pro Dual Action Machine Polisher.

Obviously before even going near the car with the Polisher ensure the paint is clean and dry and fully free of any contaminants such as Tar or Metal Falllout etc.

I have had good results on Tornado Red in the past using the same system...

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=365263&page=3

Offline Lucastheone92

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Re: Removing Swirls Black Paint
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2016, 11:22:31 am »
Ok thanks that makes sense. Which pads do you use for 105 and 205? My paint work isn't really bad but I doubt it's ever had this 2 stage treatment before.

105 with Orange Hex Pad
205 with White Hex Pad

DAS-6 Pro Dual Action Machine Polisher.

Obviously before even going near the car with the Polisher ensure the paint is clean and dry and fully free of any contaminants such as Tar or Metal Falllout etc.

I have had good results on Tornado Red in the past using the same system...

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=365263&page=3
Really need to buy a polisher. The only problem is I don't have anyway to wash my car at home so I'm reluctant to wash my car at a petrol station then drive back home to clay and polish etc.


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Offline bonelorry

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Re: Removing Swirls Black Paint
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2016, 11:51:15 am »
Ok thanks that makes sense. Which pads do you use for 105 and 205? My paint work isn't really bad but I doubt it's ever had this 2 stage treatment before.

105 with Orange Hex Pad
205 with White Hex Pad

DAS-6 Pro Dual Action Machine Polisher.

Obviously before even going near the car with the Polisher ensure the paint is clean and dry and fully free of any contaminants such as Tar or Metal Falllout etc.

I have had good results on Tornado Red in the past using the same system...

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=365263&page=3
Really need to buy a polisher. The only problem is I don't have anyway to wash my car at home so I'm reluctant to wash my car at a petrol station then drive back home to clay and polish etc.


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Sorry if this sounds harsh...

My advice would be not to bother, You simply will not get the results! You cannot wash a car properly at a Petrol Station or Jet-Wash, The car needs a full fall out remover applying and time to work, De-Tarring and repeatedly rinsing at multiple stages.

It will also require another wash after the Polishing Stage/Before waxing.

I would only ever recommend washing a car using the 2 bucket method with a Soft/Lambswool Wash Mitt and Drying towel otherwise you will just create more and more swirls/marks on your paintwork.

I am not professing to be an expert but can tell you that it takes many many hours per week to get a car upto a good level and to maintain that level of finish. A 2-Stage Machine Polish is a full day job in itself!


Offline Lucastheone92

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Re: Removing Swirls Black Paint
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2016, 07:28:21 pm »
Ok thanks that makes sense. Which pads do you use for 105 and 205? My paint work isn't really bad but I doubt it's ever had this 2 stage treatment before.

105 with Orange Hex Pad
205 with White Hex Pad

DAS-6 Pro Dual Action Machine Polisher.

Obviously before even going near the car with the Polisher ensure the paint is clean and dry and fully free of any contaminants such as Tar or Metal Falllout etc.

I have had good results on Tornado Red in the past using the same system...

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=365263&page=3
Really need to buy a polisher. The only problem is I don't have anyway to wash my car at home so I'm reluctant to wash my car at a petrol station then drive back home to clay and polish etc.


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Sorry if this sounds harsh...

My advice would be not to bother, You simply will not get the results! You cannot wash a car properly at a Petrol Station or Jet-Wash, The car needs a full fall out remover applying and time to work, De-Tarring and repeatedly rinsing at multiple stages.

It will also require another wash after the Polishing Stage/Before waxing.

I would only ever recommend washing a car using the 2 bucket method with a Soft/Lambswool Wash Mitt and Drying towel otherwise you will just create more and more swirls/marks on your paintwork.

I am not professing to be an expert but can tell you that it takes many many hours per week to get a car upto a good level and to maintain that level of finish. A 2-Stage Machine Polish is a full day job in itself!
Occasionally I have access to my brothers pressure washer where time isn't a problem.

How often is a 2 stage polish needed? Could I just do this say at my brothers and from then on just wash and then wax?


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Offline bonelorry

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Re: Removing Swirls Black Paint
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2016, 09:14:00 am »
Occasionally I have access to my brothers pressure washer where time isn't a problem.

How often is a 2 stage polish needed? Could I just do this say at my brothers and from then on just wash and then wax?


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In theory if it is done properly then just once, Its depends how well you continue to look after the paint after it has been Corrected/Machine Polished! That also depends how you wash it and how you dry it which both can contribute to creating new Swirl Marks depending on the products you use, Sponges to wash and Chamois Leather's to dry are a big No No!

Here is the process I used which I have copied from the Detailing World link I posted further up...

: Rinsed the car, Wheel arches and Wheels thoroughly.
: Cleaned the fuel filler flap. All door, Bonnet and boot-lid shuts, Front Scuttle and Rubber door window seals using Valetpro detailing brush and APC to high concentrate.
: Rinsed car again.
: Washed the car using 2 bucket method one panel at a time with a Eurow Lambswool mitt and Meguires ultimate shampoo.
: Rinsed car again.
: Cleaned the wheels with Valetpro Bilberry wheel cleaner, 1:5 dilute in trigger bottle with foaming head. Using a Valetpro detailing brush to agitate, Left on 5 mins per wheel to dwell then rinsed off. Finished the wheel faces with a Meguiars MF wash mitt and wheel backs using a Megs ultra safe wheel brush.
: Wheel arches cleaned using trigger bottle with APC and foaming head and wheel arch brush, then rinsed.
: Dried the whole car using Elite XL drying towel.
: Applied Iron-X fallout remover, Left for 5 mins to take affect.
: Whole car was then rinsed thoroughly.
: Re-washed the car using same method as above.
: Clayed the whole car using Megs mild clay and Megs Detailer spray as lubricant (This was not really required and removed virtually nothing from the paint.)
: Any Tar Specs dealt with using Autoglym Tar Remover
: Rinsed the car again.
: Dryed the whole car with Elite XL drying towel, Dried the wheels, Door shuts and engine bay with Microfibre towel.

Then onto the polishing, I used a DAS-6 Pro Dual Action machine polisher with Orange & White Hex-Logic 5.5" Pads for 95% of the car and for the smaller areas smaller 4" Hex pads for spotting. I opted to go for the tried and tested 2 stage Meguiars 105 Ultra cut compound & 205 finishing polish combo.

: Masked off all black bits, Rubber seals, Roof aerial and boot badges with 3M Blue masking tape. Also masked any overlapping panels or edges.
: I also masked off a test area on the rear 3 quarter and started with the lightest pad and lightest polish/compound to assess the correction and worked my way up through the combinations. Thought this was a good idea as I was unsure how much the pad/polish combo would work. Once happy I then went on to do the whole car.
: Starting with the roof and working my way down, One panel at a time with the D/A. Firstly using the 5.5" Orange Hex pad and Megs 105 to remove the worst swirls/defects. Started with a low speed to spread the polish and reduce splatter, Once spread increased speed to number 5 on the D/A and made 4-5 passes on the first 1st hit and wiped off, Checked the area and then a 2nd hit repeating the process on any areas which the 1st hit did not remove all of the defects. I was amazed at the clarity and depth of the paint after this stage, Not even refined it looked really glossy.
: Again following the same process as above but onto the refining stage, This was done using the Megs 205 and 5.5" White Hex pad. This stage for me just gave the car even more clarity, Hard to explain really as it looked great prior to refining but it just looked clean and even glossier.
: I then fitted the smaller spotting pad and with the Megs 205 and 4" White Hex pad made a few passes over the headlights, Rear lenses and Gloss Black B-Pillar's.

Once happy with everything and the finish, All the masking tape was removed, The car was then rinsed, Re-Washed, Dried and ready for waxing.

: Waxed the car using Collinites No:845 liquid insulator wax, The bottle was placed in warm water to help separate the wax and turn it into liquid, Then given a good shake before application. Using a soft applicator to apply, Left 30 mins to cure and Elite buffing towel to remove.
: Dressed any plastic trim, Honeycomb grilles, Front scuttle and Wiper arms with Autoglym Vinyl and Rubber car buffing of any excess with a Microfibre cloth.
: Dressed the tyres using Megs endurance tyre gel.
: Dressed the wheel arch liners with Autoglym Vinyl and rubber care
: Polished the tailpipe's with Autosol.
: Finished the car off with a spritz of Sonax Turbo detailer spray and a Chemical boys ultra plush finishing/buffing towel.


The above list is how generally I would detail a car from start to finish with regards to doing a 2 Stage Machine Polish, Obviously I have done other things on that list in addition but the majority is just preparing the paint ready for Polishing.

If you feel you can do the above between 2 locations then go for it  :happy2: I used to wash my cars a few streets away at my uncles and can confirm it was a total nightmare :grin: I wouldn't want to do a full days detailing going backwards and forwards especially considering the time of Year and lack of Daylight. Mine would be done on the drive under a car port and then into the garage under florescent light so I could see any defects or marks.

It all depends what level of finish you want and how far you want to go, It is my hobby but its not for everyone. If you have never used a Machine Polisher before then it will take quite a few cars before you begin to see decent results. Might be an idea to buy a scrap bonnet of another car and do some testing or use someone else's car first as a guinea pig.

Alternatively if you don't fancy doing it yourself you could pay a Pro Detailer to do an Enhancement Detail on you Golf and then just keep on top of it after.

Sorry if I have gone on.

Offline Lucastheone92

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Re: Removing Swirls Black Paint
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2016, 01:37:24 pm »
Occasionally I have access to my brothers pressure washer where time isn't a problem.

How often is a 2 stage polish needed? Could I just do this say at my brothers and from then on just wash and then wax?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In theory if it is done properly then just once, Its depends how well you continue to look after the paint after it has been Corrected/Machine Polished! That also depends how you wash it and how you dry it which both can contribute to creating new Swirl Marks depending on the products you use, Sponges to wash and Chamois Leather's to dry are a big No No!

Here is the process I used which I have copied from the Detailing World link I posted further up...

: Rinsed the car, Wheel arches and Wheels thoroughly.
: Cleaned the fuel filler flap. All door, Bonnet and boot-lid shuts, Front Scuttle and Rubber door window seals using Valetpro detailing brush and APC to high concentrate.
: Rinsed car again.
: Washed the car using 2 bucket method one panel at a time with a Eurow Lambswool mitt and Meguires ultimate shampoo.
: Rinsed car again.
: Cleaned the wheels with Valetpro Bilberry wheel cleaner, 1:5 dilute in trigger bottle with foaming head. Using a Valetpro detailing brush to agitate, Left on 5 mins per wheel to dwell then rinsed off. Finished the wheel faces with a Meguiars MF wash mitt and wheel backs using a Megs ultra safe wheel brush.
: Wheel arches cleaned using trigger bottle with APC and foaming head and wheel arch brush, then rinsed.
: Dried the whole car using Elite XL drying towel.
: Applied Iron-X fallout remover, Left for 5 mins to take affect.
: Whole car was then rinsed thoroughly.
: Re-washed the car using same method as above.
: Clayed the whole car using Megs mild clay and Megs Detailer spray as lubricant (This was not really required and removed virtually nothing from the paint.)
: Any Tar Specs dealt with using Autoglym Tar Remover
: Rinsed the car again.
: Dryed the whole car with Elite XL drying towel, Dried the wheels, Door shuts and engine bay with Microfibre towel.

Then onto the polishing, I used a DAS-6 Pro Dual Action machine polisher with Orange & White Hex-Logic 5.5" Pads for 95% of the car and for the smaller areas smaller 4" Hex pads for spotting. I opted to go for the tried and tested 2 stage Meguiars 105 Ultra cut compound & 205 finishing polish combo.

: Masked off all black bits, Rubber seals, Roof aerial and boot badges with 3M Blue masking tape. Also masked any overlapping panels or edges.
: I also masked off a test area on the rear 3 quarter and started with the lightest pad and lightest polish/compound to assess the correction and worked my way up through the combinations. Thought this was a good idea as I was unsure how much the pad/polish combo would work. Once happy I then went on to do the whole car.
: Starting with the roof and working my way down, One panel at a time with the D/A. Firstly using the 5.5" Orange Hex pad and Megs 105 to remove the worst swirls/defects. Started with a low speed to spread the polish and reduce splatter, Once spread increased speed to number 5 on the D/A and made 4-5 passes on the first 1st hit and wiped off, Checked the area and then a 2nd hit repeating the process on any areas which the 1st hit did not remove all of the defects. I was amazed at the clarity and depth of the paint after this stage, Not even refined it looked really glossy.
: Again following the same process as above but onto the refining stage, This was done using the Megs 205 and 5.5" White Hex pad. This stage for me just gave the car even more clarity, Hard to explain really as it looked great prior to refining but it just looked clean and even glossier.
: I then fitted the smaller spotting pad and with the Megs 205 and 4" White Hex pad made a few passes over the headlights, Rear lenses and Gloss Black B-Pillar's.

Once happy with everything and the finish, All the masking tape was removed, The car was then rinsed, Re-Washed, Dried and ready for waxing.

: Waxed the car using Collinites No:845 liquid insulator wax, The bottle was placed in warm water to help separate the wax and turn it into liquid, Then given a good shake before application. Using a soft applicator to apply, Left 30 mins to cure and Elite buffing towel to remove.
: Dressed any plastic trim, Honeycomb grilles, Front scuttle and Wiper arms with Autoglym Vinyl and Rubber car buffing of any excess with a Microfibre cloth.
: Dressed the tyres using Megs endurance tyre gel.
: Dressed the wheel arch liners with Autoglym Vinyl and rubber care
: Polished the tailpipe's with Autosol.
: Finished the car off with a spritz of Sonax Turbo detailer spray and a Chemical boys ultra plush finishing/buffing towel.


The above list is how generally I would detail a car from start to finish with regards to doing a 2 Stage Machine Polish, Obviously I have done other things on that list in addition but the majority is just preparing the paint ready for Polishing.

If you feel you can do the above between 2 locations then go for it  :happy2: I used to wash my cars a few streets away at my uncles and can confirm it was a total nightmare :grin: I wouldn't want to do a full days detailing going backwards and forwards especially considering the time of Year and lack of Daylight. Mine would be done on the drive under a car port and then into the garage under florescent light so I could see any defects or marks.

It all depends what level of finish you want and how far you want to go, It is my hobby but its not for everyone. If you have never used a Machine Polisher before then it will take quite a few cars before you begin to see decent results. Might be an idea to buy a scrap bonnet of another car and do some testing or use someone else's car first as a guinea pig.

Alternatively if you don't fancy doing it yourself you could pay a Pro Detailer to do an Enhancement Detail on you Golf and then just keep on top of it after.

Sorry if I have gone on.
Thanks for the info I really appreciate it.

From what you've said I'm just going to wait until I have access to a driveway and an outside hose for a few days (my parents), and do the stages you mentioned above. At the moment I'm just going to stick with a simple wash at the petrol stations so I don't cause any damage.

I've used a polisher before but that would have been a few years ago when I had my first car which was a polo which was closer to a pink color than it was red!

Thanks again for the info, I'll share some photos when I get round to this to see how I've got on!  :happy2:

Offline andyy

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Re: Removing Swirls Black Paint
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2016, 02:26:13 pm »
Occasionally I have access to my brothers pressure washer where time isn't a problem.

How often is a 2 stage polish needed? Could I just do this say at my brothers and from then on just wash and then wax?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In theory if it is done properly then just once, Its depends how well you continue to look after the paint after it has been Corrected/Machine Polished! That also depends how you wash it and how you dry it which both can contribute to creating new Swirl Marks depending on the products you use, Sponges to wash and Chamois Leather's to dry are a big No No!

Here is the process I used which I have copied from the Detailing World link I posted further up...

: Rinsed the car, Wheel arches and Wheels thoroughly.
: Cleaned the fuel filler flap. All door, Bonnet and boot-lid shuts, Front Scuttle and Rubber door window seals using Valetpro detailing brush and APC to high concentrate.
: Rinsed car again.
: Washed the car using 2 bucket method one panel at a time with a Eurow Lambswool mitt and Meguires ultimate shampoo.
: Rinsed car again.
: Cleaned the wheels with Valetpro Bilberry wheel cleaner, 1:5 dilute in trigger bottle with foaming head. Using a Valetpro detailing brush to agitate, Left on 5 mins per wheel to dwell then rinsed off. Finished the wheel faces with a Meguiars MF wash mitt and wheel backs using a Megs ultra safe wheel brush.
: Wheel arches cleaned using trigger bottle with APC and foaming head and wheel arch brush, then rinsed.
: Dried the whole car using Elite XL drying towel.
: Applied Iron-X fallout remover, Left for 5 mins to take affect.
: Whole car was then rinsed thoroughly.
: Re-washed the car using same method as above.
: Clayed the whole car using Megs mild clay and Megs Detailer spray as lubricant (This was not really required and removed virtually nothing from the paint.)
: Any Tar Specs dealt with using Autoglym Tar Remover
: Rinsed the car again.
: Dryed the whole car with Elite XL drying towel, Dried the wheels, Door shuts and engine bay with Microfibre towel.

Then onto the polishing, I used a DAS-6 Pro Dual Action machine polisher with Orange & White Hex-Logic 5.5" Pads for 95% of the car and for the smaller areas smaller 4" Hex pads for spotting. I opted to go for the tried and tested 2 stage Meguiars 105 Ultra cut compound & 205 finishing polish combo.

: Masked off all black bits, Rubber seals, Roof aerial and boot badges with 3M Blue masking tape. Also masked any overlapping panels or edges.
: I also masked off a test area on the rear 3 quarter and started with the lightest pad and lightest polish/compound to assess the correction and worked my way up through the combinations. Thought this was a good idea as I was unsure how much the pad/polish combo would work. Once happy I then went on to do the whole car.
: Starting with the roof and working my way down, One panel at a time with the D/A. Firstly using the 5.5" Orange Hex pad and Megs 105 to remove the worst swirls/defects. Started with a low speed to spread the polish and reduce splatter, Once spread increased speed to number 5 on the D/A and made 4-5 passes on the first 1st hit and wiped off, Checked the area and then a 2nd hit repeating the process on any areas which the 1st hit did not remove all of the defects. I was amazed at the clarity and depth of the paint after this stage, Not even refined it looked really glossy.
: Again following the same process as above but onto the refining stage, This was done using the Megs 205 and 5.5" White Hex pad. This stage for me just gave the car even more clarity, Hard to explain really as it looked great prior to refining but it just looked clean and even glossier.
: I then fitted the smaller spotting pad and with the Megs 205 and 4" White Hex pad made a few passes over the headlights, Rear lenses and Gloss Black B-Pillar's.

Once happy with everything and the finish, All the masking tape was removed, The car was then rinsed, Re-Washed, Dried and ready for waxing.

: Waxed the car using Collinites No:845 liquid insulator wax, The bottle was placed in warm water to help separate the wax and turn it into liquid, Then given a good shake before application. Using a soft applicator to apply, Left 30 mins to cure and Elite buffing towel to remove.
: Dressed any plastic trim, Honeycomb grilles, Front scuttle and Wiper arms with Autoglym Vinyl and Rubber car buffing of any excess with a Microfibre cloth.
: Dressed the tyres using Megs endurance tyre gel.
: Dressed the wheel arch liners with Autoglym Vinyl and rubber care
: Polished the tailpipe's with Autosol.
: Finished the car off with a spritz of Sonax Turbo detailer spray and a Chemical boys ultra plush finishing/buffing towel.


The above list is how generally I would detail a car from start to finish with regards to doing a 2 Stage Machine Polish, Obviously I have done other things on that list in addition but the majority is just preparing the paint ready for Polishing.

If you feel you can do the above between 2 locations then go for it  :happy2: I used to wash my cars a few streets away at my uncles and can confirm it was a total nightmare :grin: I wouldn't want to do a full days detailing going backwards and forwards especially considering the time of Year and lack of Daylight. Mine would be done on the drive under a car port and then into the garage under florescent light so I could see any defects or marks.

It all depends what level of finish you want and how far you want to go, It is my hobby but its not for everyone. If you have never used a Machine Polisher before then it will take quite a few cars before you begin to see decent results. Might be an idea to buy a scrap bonnet of another car and do some testing or use someone else's car first as a guinea pig.

Alternatively if you don't fancy doing it yourself you could pay a Pro Detailer to do an Enhancement Detail on you Golf and then just keep on top of it after.

Sorry if I have gone on.
I follow a similar procedure. Just a typical wash takes a couple of hours!