Suspension help needed

[RMK87]

Hi All,

I'd just like to thank all of you for your help to date. My cars taking shape and all the servicing is coming along.

My car is on 120k and I had bought it with the view of doing it up in stages. The next area to tackle is the front suspension. I get OCD but at the same time im not going to spend thousands on a high mileage car.

My philosophy so far has been bang for buck. (A precat delete being the first mod). Having read previous posts I have improved my knowledge but am still not confident enough so need further advice (thanks chaps)

I feel the need to replace the whole front end but with upgraded parts. Cars a daily and the roads around here are terrible so trying to stick to an OEM+ (and wallet friendly) plan.

Firstly is the list below the all the suspension parts, and secondly if I could do with your help in making an upgrade program/plan I would really appreciate that.

Control arms - S3 parts? Cast iron parts? Or leave stock?

Droplinks - ECP or VW (OEM)? Are there any upgrades?

Polybushes - Superpro

Dampers + Springs (Really struggling to decide which one to go for here)

Ball joints (One of the bolts snapped recently) VW? ECP? Upgrades available?

Top mounts - RS3 parts?

Any other parts?

I wont be tracking the car but I do use the car "properly" on a daily basis. Also cover high mileages at 3 digit speeds during the night.

Your help would be appreciated.

[ROH ECHT]

Well...I can give you my recommendation as to what I would do to get the most for your dollar(US dollar because I'm a transplant to the US from England, Scotland, and Ireland at about 1700ad  ) I did the same thing...tons of consideration on what to get for it to perform well while spending the least I could so as to not be replacing things because of my choices not working out. Just did springs @ 22k and the rest @ 58k miles


Control arms - S3 parts? Cast iron parts? Or leave stock?I wouldn't do this...but I would swap out bushings when needed and get a Whiteline anti lift kit(W.A.L.K.) first.

Droplinks - ECP or VW (OEM)? Are there any upgrades?There are some and they are usually adjustable. I lowered mine quite a bit and kept the oem links figuring they can get upgraded if the oem fail to last much following the drop. The car was lowered @ 22k miles and I am @ 132k now. None of my links have ever broke or bent...so I would use oem again should they fail after all this time. I drive aggressively/playfully when safe or at the track and have been at its limits often.

Polybushes - SuperproThis, as I said above, would only do if I had to. I check the tightness of mine every time it is on the lift and they are still tight. I would likely get oem if needed because of how well they have been.

Dampers + Springs (Really struggling to decide which one to go for here)Eibach sportlines are a good drop. I now have a pair of H&R SuperSports in front because they are a bit lower in the front than the Eibachs were, but mostly they are comparable in drop...but the Eibachs were more comfortable. I also have a pair of adjusters in the rear with a pair of H&R Street performance coilover springs but they are paired with the B8's. I would get Bilstein B8's to pair with whichever springs you choose unless you are considering coils. If you don't want the B8's...you can save a buck and choose Koni yellows. I am switching to H&R Ultra-Low coilovers if I ever need to replace any part of these in the future. I rode in a MK5 with them and shocked how comfortable they are.

Ball joints (One of the bolts snapped recently) VW? ECP? Upgrades available?Stick with oem.

Top mounts - RS3 parts?Again...if oem doesn't fail often, or at all, stick with oem.

Any other parts?Best additional bit would be a rear ARB. I have both but I had just a rear ARB alone for some time. It dramatically eliminates understeer when set at its stiffest position. However, with just the rear ARB...I could feel the axial body twist, from front to back, having the rear stiffened only. So I added the front ARB and set it on the lightest setting and that keeps the front end from axial torque about its length.

The car currently...




When it just had the Eibach Sportlines

[RMK87]

Thank you ROH ECHT,

You have a really nice car. Your feedback has been much appreciated. 

At this moment I think droplinks and ball joints will remain stock and ARB, springs, dampers and top mounts will be uprated. Also will be polybushing and WALK kit installed. 

[ROH ECHT]

That would give you a solid improvement...after doing those you can determine the need for the other bits. The other OEM bits will last or they won't...and you can decide whether or not to upgrade or replace with oem at that point.

[FJ1000]

Another spring and damper option, since you mentioned a budget friendly preference, is VWR springs with new OEM dampers. It rides almost like stock, just a bit tighter. These springs are designed to be paired with OEM dampers, with a slightly smaller drop than the H&R or Eibach springs.






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[AJP]

If your roads are terrible I'd think twice about polybushing the lot.

Although an anti lift kit is worth doing. Superpro gets good reviews over the Whiteline kit, but you shouldn't go wrong with either.

VWR also now do a damper to pair with their springs, they actually sell both as a kit. Works well apparently on H&R springs too which give a 30mm drop rather than the 15-20mm of the VWR springs. Cheaper than B8s too.

Bear in mind stiffer roll bars effectively stiffen your setup even further, but with good dampers and a sensible drop you should keep things compliant.

@ROH ECHT Every time I see your car I always love the stance. And the wheels, are they TSW Nurburgring? Interesting what you say about the H&R Ultra Low coilovers. I'm itching for a bit more drop over my H&R springs, but I'm not keen on a harsh setup. What would you compare the Ultra Lows to, in terms of comfort? I know it's hard not to be subjective! I'd like to think there's a way of going lower without making the car a bone-shaker. You boys over the pond have lovely smooth roads though don't you??!

(Apologies for thread drift)

[bonelorry]

As mentioned, VWR Spring and Damper kit is my next purchase for my Edition 30 along with the Superpro Anti lift Kit

[ROH ECHT]

@ROH ECHT Every time I see your car I always love the stance. And the wheels, are they TSW Nurburgring? Interesting what you say about the H&R Ultra Low coilovers. I'm itching for a bit more drop over my H&R springs, but I'm not keen on a harsh setup. What would you compare the Ultra Lows to, in terms of comfort? I know it's hard not to be subjective! I'd like to think there's a way of going lower without making the car a bone-shaker. You boys over the pond have lovely smooth roads though don't you??!

(Apologies for thread drift)

Thank you for the kind words...and my apologies to the OP as well if this is off topic and unhelpful. Yes they are Nurb's. I selected them for the look, fitment, but mostly because of their 18.4 lbs vs oem 29 lbs difference. When I rode in my VW tech's mk5 with ultra-lows...they were smoother ride than the Eibachs were and probably equal to new stock ride...only I couldn't remember how that was due to the time that had passed. There are pretty good roads here...but over the past few years to a decade it seems there is more patch work on deteriorating roads than there are proper refurb jobs being done on them. Must be allocating money elsewhere and just squeaking by where roads are concerned. My wife hates riding in my car. Having done both front and rear ARB's prevents one corner to move seemingly freely from the other side making you feel everything. That's when driving rather pedestrian...start tossing it about and it is amazingly smooth and glued. This...why I suggest to most that a rear ARB is a very good upgrade for the scary understeer you get if you overpower it once or twice in a curvy but you will retain the comfort. Begin on its lightest setting for restraint and tighten if needed.

You can go crazy low with the ultra-lows...this is very close to what I am shooting for and can be done with them. Not as low in the rear though: http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79727&stc=1&d=1320687331

[flashp]

If your roads are terrible I'd think twice about polybushing the lot.

Although an anti lift kit is worth doing. Superpro gets good reviews over the Whiteline kit, but you shouldn't go wrong with either.

VWR also now do a damper to pair with their springs, they actually sell both as a kit. Works well apparently on H&R springs too which give a 30mm drop rather than the 15-20mm of the VWR springs. Cheaper than B8s too.

Bear in mind stiffer roll bars effectively stiffen your setup even further, but with good dampers and a sensible drop you should keep things compliant.

@ROH ECHT Every time I see your car I always love the stance. And the wheels, are they TSW Nurburgring? Interesting what you say about the H&R Ultra Low coilovers. I'm itching for a bit more drop over my H&R springs, but I'm not keen on a harsh setup. What would you compare the Ultra Lows to, in terms of comfort? I know it's hard not to be subjective! I'd like to think there's a way of going lower without making the car a bone-shaker. You boys over the pond have lovely smooth roads though don't you??!

(Apologies for thread drift)

I'm with this. refresh the OE parts with original parts and add a WALK kit to help stop the toe angle changes that the ridiculously soft OE bush allows under braking and acceleration.
PU bushes everywhere on bad roads could be a bad move.

Bilstein B12 kit and Eibach ARB kit work well together.

Consider a set of Team Dynamics TD 1.2 wheels since they're massively lighter that stock wheels and will dramatically reduce un-sprung weight on each suspension leg. 17" work well as the rotational mass is reduced, they're lighter still and you can get the original 7.5J wheel spec and avoid possible rubbing issues on the arch liner. They are good strong wheel that will take the punishment of poor roads and the slightly taller side wall will also help deal with poor surfaces. There'lll be no issue with sidewall deformation to spoil your drive if you buy the right tyre. Reducing un-sprung weight takes some inertia out of the suspension system and allows the wheel to stay in better contact with the road surface as it can react faster. There is an effective ratio whereby 1kg of un-sprung weight will equal taking 6kg out of the car's weight or thereabouts. The multiple differs depending on where you read but the principle is proven.

These will give measurable gains. Not sure that the rest of everything you mentioned in first post will though.

For a keen driver a full set of engine mounts will sharpen up power delivery and give you much better feedback on throttle control.
Getting pricey now, but an LSD for somebody like you could be transformative. Wavetrac diffs are exceptional and excel at hard B road driving. Not essential by any means but quite brilliant and worth a mention in case you have the means to fit one at 'mates rates' 

[RMK87]

Thanks All,

Can anyone post a link on where to buy the VWR kit? Min drop whilst firming things up is ideal for me. Car needs new dampers/springs (120k) and new bushes. Was planning on upgrading everything at once but may hold back on the polybushing now. Will be purchasing new ball joints, droplinks and tie rod ends too next weekend. (I get OCD and just want to replace it all knowing that its been done and then not worry about it).

On a side note the gearbox mount needs replacing. Just about to order the Vibratechnics mount. Is the VWR one worth the extra £50?

[flashp]

Thanks All,

Can anyone post a link on where to buy the VWR kit? Min drop whilst firming things up is ideal for me. Car needs new dampers/springs (120k) and new bushes. Was planning on upgrading everything at once but may hold back on the polybushing now. Will be purchasing new ball joints, droplinks and tie rod ends too next weekend. (I get OCD and just want to replace it all knowing that its been done and then not worry about it).

On a side note the gearbox mount needs replacing. Just about to order the Vibratechnics mount. Is the VWR one worth the extra £50?

See my post above and consider the full set in this case. OE engine mounts are incredibly soft and like to be past they're best by now.

[RMK87]

Thanks for your help

I think I may just stick with OEM or OEM+ with a few subtle mods (Have to control myself!! )

New plan! -

VWR dampers and spring kit. Any links?
SuperPro WALK Kit
Uprated top mounts
OEM Droplinks/Ball Joints and Trackrod ends
Vibratechnics Dogbone Mount (Or VWR?)

Lastly will need to repair my bank balance. 
 

[bonelorry]

Thanks for your help

I think I may just stick with OEM or OEM+ with a few subtle mods (Have to control myself!! )

New plan! -

VWR dampers and spring kit. Any links?
SuperPro WALK Kit
Uprated top mounts
OEM Droplinks/Ball Joints and Trackrod ends
Vibratechnics Dogbone Mount (Or VWR?)

Lastly will need to repair my bank balance. 

VWR Spring and Damper kit...

Awesome GTI list the Dampers and Springs separate which works out about £580, Although they might sell them cheaper as a combination as other suppliers will...

These do the package £516, Cheapest I have found so far...

http://www.vrsnorthampton.com/en/home/406-racingline-sport-shock-absorber-spring-kit-golf-56.html?search_query=vwr+damper&results=17

As do these but are a little more expensive...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Golf-MK5-MK6-VWR-Sport-Shock-Absorber-Spring-Kit-Volkswagen-Racing-/152038949948?hash=item23663a443c:g:qmwAAOSwEK9XACXj

[ROH ECHT]

Something you may consider to stiffen the front end is: http://www.tyrolsport.com/suspension/chassis/tyrolsport-deadset-rigid-subframe-collar-kit-for-all-mk5/6-jetta-gli-and-mk2-audi-tt/

I'm doing one of these kits next time the subframe bolts needs to be loosened for any reason. Should've done it when I replaced the front ARB...wait, I remember why I didn't....I wasn't

[ROH ECHT]

VWR dampers and spring kit. Any links?

Here's a "find a dealer" link: http://www.racingline-performance.com/vwr-dealer-finder