At what power would you go 4WD?

[baka]

Hi ya, I'm buying A3 8P soon. I was after a MK5, but I'm too big for the seats and due to previous injuries the steering is way too heavy. So the Audi is the next best thing!

My question please, for yous guys with experience modding and driving the platform. At what point would you go 4wd/Quattro?

The cars definitely getting a map and 90% chance overtime it'll probably end up at Stage 2+. But that'll be it, no K04 or hybrid fun.

So at that point, do you think Quattro is literally worth its own weight?

I believe a 3dr FWD is about 1300kg and a Sportsback Quattro (much more common than 3dr) is about 1450kg.

Also any thoughts on how it effects the car dynamically vs fwd? I'm getting the car primarily for some b road fun. So if the Quattro makes everything all safe and anodyne but the fwd is a hoot, that's a consideration. 

Thanks! 

[r5gtt]

If I could turn back the clock I'd go 4wd all the way at any stage as it has better had long ihmo amd traction is awesome once mapped up to water stage to go. gti's are fun but once you start climbing the bhp up start spinning thr wheels all over the place including 3rd gear. That's my opinion. 

[lukemk5gti]

But the cost involved with AWD with a LSD isn't worth it to retrofit along with all your other performance upgrades.

I would buy a car with AWD and then add in performance bits from there.

[xs2man]

But the cost involved with AWD with a LSD isn't worth it to retrofit along with all your other performance upgrades.

I would buy a car with AWD and then add in performance bits from there.

Surely that's what he is asking though?  He is planning stage 2+ on a k03, and if it's worth buying the quattro, or will FWD be enough?  Since he hasn't already bought the car.

In answer to that, buy the quattro.  There is no point messing about not buying the quattro when it already exists.  Adding 4wd to a 2wd car is expensive and complicated.  Buying a 4wd instead of a 2wd might cost a little more initially, but then you have all the traction, there from the start.

Go for the DSG box too, while you're at it.  Otherwise you're another £1k+ for an uprated clutch / flywheel.  Which will likely offset the purchase cost difference between the DSG and manual anyway.  And it means you might as well just go map the thing straight away as soon as you get it (like on the way home).  Unlike me, who went manual, but now has to do the clutch first before mapping, so might as well do all the engine mods I want first too.

[baka]

Sorry to clarify, I haven't bought the car yet! So have the choice of a quattro A3 or fwd A3. Which I'm hoping to take to about 280hp. 

Thanks for the input, sounds like Quattro would be worth getting.

I know it makes sense but I'm afraid I just don't get on with DSG. A lot of the pleasure I get from driving comes from changing gear. I couldn't give it up even if it meant a big clutch/DMF bill down the line. 

[Charlie23]

I have had the Quattro A3 2.0 TFSI 3 door before i bought my S3 and the reason for buying the S3 was because the A3 was rubbish tobehonest.

Standard it felt like i was driving a 1.6 with no power in it what so ever. had it mapped APR, which produced 265bhp but it didnt feel quick at all, and the fuel economy wasnt the best. So i looked in to it and upgraded to an S3.

The 2.0tfsi with K03 turbo has to be fwd as it has alot more pull for some reason. i know all cars are diffrent but my mates mk5 GTI standard was way faster and more economical than the Quattro A3 and stage 1 tuned it was also way faster also.

I know its only an opinion but been there and done it, had the car for about 3 weeks before it had to go.

[bonelorry]

Its a tough one, I have reverted back to FWD. I bought a MK6 Golf R earlier this Year expecting it to blow me away with the 4WD, I remapped it within the first few Weeks and even then found it a bit dull.

Not knocking the capability of the car, It was a fantastic package with phenomenal levels of grip and quick off the mark but sadly not for me. I never launch my cars and generally I need performance for overtaking 30-70MPH/60-100MPH so just did not feel I ever benefited from having a 4WD car.

I preferred the ED30 I had previous, I thought it was more fun, More nimble and once rolling a quicker car (Both Stage 1) Plus £8000 cheaper to buy.

[r5gtt]

The quattro will be a little slower than the fwd as my tt was quick at 265 bhp stage 1 but the gti is alot lighter and is definitely alot quicker with response and less lag than the k04 023

[r5gtt]

Its a tough one, I have reverted back to FWD. I bought a MK6 Golf R earlier this Year expecting it to blow me away with the 4WD, I remapped it within the first few Weeks and even then found it a bit dull.

Not knocking the capability of the car, It was a fantastic package with phenomenal levels of grip and quick off the mark but sadly not for me. I never launch my cars and generally I need performance for overtaking 30-70MPH/60-100MPH so just did not feel I ever benefited from having a 4WD car.

I preferred the ED30 I had previous, I thought it was more fun, More nimble and once rolling a quicker car (Both Stage 1) Plus £8000 cheaper to buy.

I raced an R Mk7 a few weeks back and it was quick and I'd bu definitely have one if funds ever permit but sadly the drive was sh*t as all he could deal with was the straights    on a bend and he got baffled 

[chigmuss]

Aren't most of the mk5/a3 platform cars that are 4wd actually running round in the main as front drivers? I always thought the 4wd only came in when the sensor detected the front wheel/s had lost traction and at that point power was then transferred to the rear or across all four wheels. I didn't think they were constantly driving four wheels at the same time like a Land Rover will.

[AJP]

I'm at 270bhp and 345lbft on a k03 GTI.

1st and 2nd are useless at WOT. It'll sometimes try and spin up in 3rd at 3000rpm. If I wasn't on Super Sports it would be worse. And this is in warm, dry conditions. But it's lots of fun.

Would AWD help at this stage? Yes. But at this power level I think it'd cease to be fun.

So just as a 2WD car with 270-300bhp is fun and reasonably manageable, I'd imagine I'd personally want something with around 350bhp if I went AWD or it might feel a little too steady. You're adding at least 150kg with AWD.

I'm probably going to do a k04 conversion at some point, and then I'll learn the car's real limits. Next car will be AWD or RWD.

So yes, get AWD if it's an option, and plan for ~350bhp. I reckon that'd be a good balance.

[xs2man]

Aren't most of the mk5/a3 platform cars that are 4wd actually running round in the main as front drivers? I always thought the 4wd only came in when the sensor detected the front wheel/s had lost traction and at that point power was then transferred to the rear or across all four wheels. I didn't think they were constantly driving four wheels at the same time like a Land Rover will.

This is true, but all that weight is still their dragging on the power, and affecting the fuel economy.  If the OP's weights are correct, it's like having 1 and a half big fat dudes with you all the time (based on my big fat 100 kg).  150 KG is not insignificant.  Not when people here go on about the 2 KG per disc weight saving between the 345mm and 340mm discs for an S3 set-up.

Personally, I'd rather have the quattro though.  But then I am looking at a k04 tuned car, so 320+ bhp would be nicer driving 4 wheels I'd imagine.  Well, my S4 was 340 BHP and driving 4 wheels, although my 335d was also 340 BHP, but driving the rear wheels.

[r5gtt]

Chigmuss is right but again 4wd is best for high powered cars for less slip as mentioned by AJP although I'd sacrifice the power for 4wd as ive driven the porsche carrera 4s as my bother had one and my tt quattro for 5 years and love the feeling of putting the power down without spinning the front up.

btw the carrera 4s is a beast and don't try to pull away too fast as the rear does snake 

[Charlie23]

You are spot on with the wheel spin etc as my Ed30 stage 1 APR wheel spins at will like all stage 1 Ed30's no matter what tyres your running (Goodyear F1 A3's), where as my S3 was 371bhp with 408ft lb and of the mark it was an animal but clutch wise it would of needed changing every 6 months if you drove it like that all the time, and thats also more expensive as im sure its an extra 2-3 hours labour for clutch removal on a Quattro due to propshaft etc etc.

Depends how much your budget is and what you want really, if your going for Power then why buy an A3 Quattro surely an S3 has to be the choice, but if thats a stretch then i would personaly go for a GTi or FWD A3 as the K03 quattro is only any good if its snowing which i did have the fun off in my S3 and A3 S Line TDI Quattro once.

I can 100% say i was very very disapointed once i bought the A3 Quattro. Every one is different and you might love it but if your saying your buy it as im going to make it 260bhp and its Quattro and will be fast then you will be very disapointed.
Sorry 

[Charlie23]

btw the carrera 4s is a beast and don't try to pull away too fast as the rear does snake 
[/quote]

Hope i dont sound a know it all but i also had a Porsche 911 Carrera 4 also 3.6L and i didnt like the drive of it one bit!!! Sold that to buy the Ed30 after 3 months of ownership, Wasnt even that fast handling was good have to give it that, when your in a Porsche 911 you expect great things and it didnt live up to its expectations im affraid.