Water Methanol Injection instead of a bigger intercooler...?

[AJP]

There have been quite a few threads recently about intercooler upgrades, the usual "which is best?" questions followed by the usual full spectrum of answers ranging from feasible to implausible and everything in between. It's clear that some people have had success with a particular setup that others haven't, and so the debate will inevitably rumble on.

It got me thinking about a different means of cooling. I've read about water meth a few times on here, usually as part of quite a hefty power-focussed build - k04 or bigger, all the bolt-ons including a bigger intercooler - and it obviously plays a part in hitting big figures. From what I gather installing a kit and maintaining its reliability could be more straightforward, but I expect as time goes on designs will improve and things will get easier for the user. The fact that (I think) BMW are starting to utilise water meth also points to the technology becoming more mainstream.

Considering the pros and cons of a large intercooler (possible lag, boost drop) how effective would a water meth install alongside a standard GTI/Ed30 cooler be? Not necessarily in a situation where you were chasing numbers, but trying to achieve equal or improved cooling compared to the same car fitted with a big intercooler and no water meth. Theoretically if equivalent cooling function is achieved the big advantage would be a better response and spool; charge air wouldn't have to fill the volume of a big intercooler, and this might open some new doors when it comes to mapping.

So, are we there yet? Is water meth a viable alternative to the traditional big intercooler rather than a niche add-on reserved for squeezing out an extra few horses on big power cars?

[pudding]

I had an Aquamist DDS3 in one of my old cars and it was very nice indeed.  Can't say I noticed anything with my butt dyno but it certainly kept the piston crowns clean!

I'd love to see how an OEM implements water injection and what bits they use to keep it neat and reliable.

I reckon it would be a good partner with a standard intercooler.   

I had a crazy idea in my head about injecting brake cleaner into the turbo discharge pipe.  If you get that stuff on your hands it's pretty cold, and it would deep clean the intercooler and pipework, and the valves (over time) too!

[Shoduchi]

I think you can also try that option. It will decrease the IAT and with methanol it will increase the fuel octanes. I think it's not used as 1st mod for cooling IAT because it's more expensive and requires refilling the WM tank. If you fit a S3 IC you'll get good gains without compromising the K03 lag.

[AJP]

Little article here that's worth a read:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/bmw-m4-gtss-water-injection-system-feature-other-cars-2019

Developed by Bosch.

[AJP]

I think you can also try that option. It will decrease the IAT and with methanol it will increase the fuel octanes. I think it's not used as 1st mod for cooling IAT because it's more expensive and requires refilling the WM tank. If you fit a S3 IC you'll get good gains without compromising the K03 lag.

Yes I assumed it was more expensive than the usual 'fit a bigger intercooler' route. However there might just come a point when it becomes a real option. It's encouraging that it's being used by car manufacturers. The more it's used, the more it develops, and the more chance of it being a much more common mod one day.

S3 intercooler AND WMI.... now that would be good. But kind of defeats the purpose of my question

[Shoduchi]

Yeah, the M4 GTS has water injection to enable an higher boost pressure. I have a friend with WMI in his GTI that only uses distilled water stored in the wipers water tank. I might do the same one day too.

[pudding]

Yeah, the M4 GTS has water injection to enable an higher boost pressure. I have a friend with WMI in his GTI that only uses distilled water stored in the wipers water tank. I might do the same one day too.

I used Decasol screen wash which had methanol in it to stop it freezing over winter.  Saves having 2 tanks!

[Shoduchi]

Yeah, the M4 GTS has water injection to enable an higher boost pressure. I have a friend with WMI in his GTI that only uses distilled water stored in the wipers water tank. I might do the same one day too.

I used Decasol screen wash which had methanol in it to stop it freezing over winter.  Saves having 2 tanks!

Not sure if that liquid is good for the combustion but shouldn't be bad since you used it. I've seen online that the Excel screenwash has 1-5% methanol, 30-60% of ethanol and 1-5% of Propanol.

http://www.cdgltd.co.uk/files/ww/Decosol%20Excel%20Screenwash%201Lt.pdf

[th3_f15t]

From what I've seen, WMI does allow for quite a few extra horse power in tuned engines (i.e. running all the "stage 2+" modifications) but I'd imagine as with most things, it's increase is a function of other modifications increase in engine power. It certainly allows for cooler inlet temperatures which is something I'm looking into now I'm planning a hybrid K04 setup with a replacement inlet manifold that caters nicely for WMI.

I'll be keeping tabs on this discussion as it's quite relevant to me...

[pudding]

This intake manifold has 4 ports for WMI - http://www.performancebyie.com/ie-2-0t-fsi-tsi-tfsi-intake-manifold-ea113-ea888-gen1-gen2

Not cheap though, but it would be more effective than spraying a single mist into the throttle body!

With a decent system that has fluid level detection, you could probably use that sensor to switch to a 'safe' map if the meth runs out.

[Paradox1]

I run a intercooler and wmi.

Im just waiting to replace my meth hose then can put it to the test. As I posted in another thread, the intercooler alone makes a huge difference. Im guessing its down to the size of mine(go big or go home) I will report back once i have the meth up and running.

[Shoduchi]

This intake manifold has 4 ports for WMI - http://www.performancebyie.com/ie-2-0t-fsi-tsi-tfsi-intake-manifold-ea113-ea888-gen1-gen2

Not cheap though, but it would be more effective than spraying a single mist into the throttle body!

With a decent system that has fluid level detection, you could probably use that sensor to switch to a 'safe' map if the meth runs out.

From what I've read on Facebook that manifold only works well with IE software. APR software doesn't do well and @vRSAlex advised against. They also suffer from heat soak so they definitely need WMI to work well.

[Paradox1]

This intake manifold has 4 ports for WMI - http://www.performancebyie.com/ie-2-0t-fsi-tsi-tfsi-intake-manifold-ea113-ea888-gen1-gen2

Not cheap though, but it would be more effective than spraying a single mist into the throttle body!

With a decent system that has fluid level detection, you could probably use that sensor to switch to a 'safe' map if the meth runs out.

From what I've read on Facebook that manifold only works well with IE software. APR software doesn't do well and @vRSAlex advised against. They also suffer from heat soak so they definitely need WMI to work well.

What does thre IE software do exactly?
I would have thought any custom mapping that could include the RFD would be sufficient??

[Shoduchi]

This intake manifold has 4 ports for WMI - http://www.performancebyie.com/ie-2-0t-fsi-tsi-tfsi-intake-manifold-ea113-ea888-gen1-gen2

Not cheap though, but it would be more effective than spraying a single mist into the throttle body!

With a decent system that has fluid level detection, you could probably use that sensor to switch to a 'safe' map if the meth runs out.

From what I've read on Facebook that manifold only works well with IE software. APR software doesn't do well and @vRSAlex advised against. They also suffer from heat soak so they definitely need WMI to work well.

What does thre IE software do exactly?
I would have thought any custom mapping that could include the RFD would be sufficient??

I don't know exactly what the IE tune has that other tunes don't. It seems that without the correct tune the manifold flows less than stock.

[Paradox1]

Thats rubbish lol

So if there is a seperate software just for the manifold to work then how would you go about a custom tune as I doubt IE would cater for all turbo build setups.

may be worth buying and letting somewhere like Rtech map this.

Unless youd have to go standalone ECU to map it?