Water Methanol Injection instead of a bigger intercooler...?

[Shoduchi]

Thats rubbish lol

So if there is a seperate software just for the manifold to work then how would you go about a custom tune as I doubt IE would cater for all turbo build setups.

may be worth buying and letting somewhere like Rtech map this.

Unless youd have to go standalone ECU to map it?

Maybe @rtechniki can answer if he can make this manifold work like the IE tune can. For what I've read seems like Unitronic, APR and Revo don't really work well with it.

[pudding]

Lol, didn't realise that about a specific tune needed for the IE manifold!   Their's seemed really decent with the CAD optimized velocity stacks....all the good stuff.  What a shame!

It reminds me of HPA's intake for the R32.  Someone fitted one and it lost 50lbft over the standard intake immediately      Lots of forum debate about it.  HPA got involved and said (surprise surprise) "you need our special cams and tune to get the torque back".  But it never did get back to standard levels of torque with those extras!  It was primarily designed for forced induction, but losing that much torque didn't win them many customers iirc.

I think the same is true of HPA's own TFSI intake.  "Yeah, you need our tune otherwise it won't run properly".

Seems to be a bit of a theme with the Americans.  They go bigger and better on the flow but it royally messes with the engine dynamics, so they have to then mess around with the ECU to try and get you back to where you started with the standard manifold 

So erm, yeah, squirt the meth into the standard intake!

[AJP]

Some good info in here chaps. Glad I started the thread. Keep it coming!

[grey golfster]

I'm really interested in the possibilities of a wm kit...intake charge temperature reduction and valve cleaning are attractive.

One thing I'm not understanding here...

We are/would generally run water-meth?
The BMW story linked here, and elsewhere, seems to be plain water.
And then there is the ethanol/methanol/propanol "blend" talked about above also.

Can someone enlighten me please?

[AJP]

I'm really interested in the possibilities of a wm kit...intake charge temperature reduction and valve cleaning are attractive.

One thing I'm not understanding here...

We are/would generally run water-meth?
The BMW story linked here, and elsewhere, seems to be plain water.
And then there is the ethanol/methanol/propanol "blend" talked about above also.

Can someone enlighten me please?

As far as I understand it (and someone more knowledgeable should chip in) water alone simply cools the charge and slows combustion, whereas methanol actively increases the octane level too. That's a very basic explanation!

I think in the case of a production car it's far easier to use water alone. Although time will tell how that develops.

[grey golfster]

Yes, understood, and agreed I think....but if so, you think the ultimate M car would do likewise in their quest for power/performance?

[AJP]

Yes, understood, and agreed I think....but if so, you think the ultimate M car would do likewise in their quest for power/performance?

Well the power increase over the normal M4 is about 70bhp, so that was probably deemed sufficient. Yeah they could arguably have used meth but at the expense of having to develop a foolproof water-meth system on a production car that anyone could buy and drive. I'm sure not all M4 owners are true enthusiasts who'd have the means and ability to run a car with methanol in a tank like some modders are prepared to.

70bhp just with water is significant though.

[colesey]

This is a great thread! Not knowing much about the subject, I went and did some googling and read some great stories about how it was used in WW2 plane engines.  The benefits seem awesome for tuned cars - lower IAT / octane enhancement / clean running / moderate cost.  The only downside I can see, is where the tune is aggressively cranked up and the user lets the mix run out.  Hmmm, certainly some food for thought here......

[DANBOY66]

do not buy that IE manifoild !

it flows worse than stock and i am sure it was proven by niki when he swapped it for a stock one on the dyno

and on a bench flow by another forum member a stiock one flowed better
then with the internal trumpets removed it flowed better than stock but its about 40 hours labour to remove them a friend bench flowed it before and after the trumpets removed and it did get better

total waste of money the stock manifold flows well

meth with no intercooler works well but then your car is meth reliant and that is not ideal in the real world its easier just to fit a descent intercooler and forget about it unless your going for maximum power then fit a cooler and meth

i have done both meth and cooler and now just cooler and tbh adding meth to a car is just more hassle and expense for very little gain

Dan..

[colesey]

The recent colder damper weather has certainly been welcomed by the car. A stark reminder that cooler IAT Is needed, even at stage one, so I had better put this on the to do list.

[pudding]

Mine's being feel slower the colder it gets!   I guess that's what happens when you throw on a 3" downpipe and bigger intercooler without adjusting the map to suit 

[Paradox1]

Mine's being feel slower the colder it gets!   I guess that's what happens when you throw on a 3" downpipe and bigger intercooler without adjusting the map to suit 

What cooler you got?

I got a 3 inch DP and a wellycooler on min unmapped. it does feel a bit laggy but it does go once thew cooler gets air in it.
In the weather I guess I dont really need meth but im extra lol

[pudding]

Mine's being feel slower the colder it gets!   I guess that's what happens when you throw on a 3" downpipe and bigger intercooler without adjusting the map to suit 

What cooler you got?

I got a 3 inch DP and a wellycooler on min unmapped. it does feel a bit laggy but it does go once thew cooler gets air in it.
In the weather I guess I dont really need meth but im extra lol

Just one of the newer plastic ended S3 jobs mate.  I'm not going stage 2+, so that's all I need really.   Yeah that's how mine feels, laggy...... and slower than usual!  It's intermittent as well, which is annoying.  Pulls well everywhere one week, than shat the next!  I hate how inconsistent turbo engines can be sometimes!

I think I'm getting boredom pangs again...... the engine feels slow and coarse, the suspension feels awful, the plastics inside are all brittle and creaky......it just feels old!!

I think the car just wants to hibernate over the winter like me 

[r5gtt]

Bigger manifold will want to suck more fuel in thus a map will be required and possible updated injectors and so forth.

[GrayMK5GTI]

You really need an intercooler for the flow as well as cooling. As others have said, both is the way to go