GT TDI 170 - Bang goes the family holiday next year!

[middlerhythm]

So, I bought a pretty tidy looking black GT 170 a couple of months ago (privately). I'd been meaning to drop it down to the local VW specialist to have the cambelt changed and to diagnose some seemingly minor issues. I'd noticed a slight mechanical whine coming from the engine whilst in gear, and some juddering when accelerating hard in a high gear. Unfortunately, I didn't pick this up on the test drive when I was buying the car.

Turns out the whining noise is the sound of a knackered gearbox, along with a shafted DMF. To add insult to injury the inlet manifold is also in need of replacement because it's causing boost leak (common problem apparently).

Probably looking at the best part of £2K to have this work done by the garage if I source the gearbox, flywheel and clutch kit myself.

Before I fork out - because realistically I have no other option - does anyone have any experience with this kind of work? Is it really worth it on a car I paid £3K for?

I phoned up my local stealers and asked if they could take the car to give a second opinion, but they could only offer an opinion once they'd removed the gearbox to have a look which would obviously cost £££.

Pretty p*ssed off that I wasn't on the ball enough to notice this at point of sale!

[xjay1337]

gearbox is about £400 on Ebay
Full dmf + clutch kit can be had for around the same.
Inlet manifold is fairly common but you can buy replacements on Ebay for not very much or you can remove the swirl flaps altogether (will need mapping out).

i have not had swirl flaps for nearly 2 years now.

labour to do the clutch/gearbox is 4-5 hours and swapping inlet manifold is 2-3 hours....

not cheap but no where near £3k either.

try changing the gearbox oil and seeing if that resolves the whine in the short term. moving to millers i think it's 75w90.

[chigmuss]

Some sage advice already, but if it's any consolation our 140 Touran has had a whining on 5th when coasting, which has progressed to 6th. That's been like that for 50,000 miles, so I'm riding my luck but it may not be as terminal and immediate as feared. Or maybe I'm talking out my input shaft.

[middlerhythm]

Great thanks for the info. 

[19TW80]

middlerhythm Thinking off the top of my head here... but have you thought about doing some detective work i.e. speaking to the mechanics at the garage where the car was serviced and MOT'd? There's just a possibility that the previous owner took the car into the garage to have the whine and juddering diagnosed, and knew full well that a serious and expensive problem existed. Maybe the last MOT picked something up (I'm aware that the state of the clutch and gearbox wouldn't warrant a failure), which the mechanic/MOT tester notified the previous owner about. This obviously wouldn't show up as an advisory, but a record may exist.

Appreciate that this is a long shot, but if the previous owner sold the car to you and was aware of these faults but wasn't transparent in the advert and verbally, then I'd say you've got a case under the Consumer Rights Act as a 'second-hand car bought privately' - http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand--car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights. If you can prove that the seller was aware of these faults, didn't declare them in the advert and witheld them from you verbally, and the private sale was through eBay, then I'm pretty sure your purchase would be protected in some shape or form.

Not for a moment am I alleging that the seller was complicit in selling you a vehicle that he/she knew was knackered/dangerous *ahem*. However, I'm a cynic, and unfortunately bar stewards who are that way inclined do exist, and in this situation that would be one of my suspicions.

It may come to nothing, and I may be speaking out of my arse, as some may say that the car was 'bought as seen', but these are certainly avenues I would explore. Good luck.

[middlerhythm]

That, my friend, is a very good idea. I do have some receipts from the garage in which the car was serviced before I owned it. I'll make some enquiries in the morning!

The garage that's doing the work for me now is fairly certain that the sellers would have known about the issues. I've attempted to contact the sellers by voice and text, but only received a text claiming ignorance.

Definitely going to follow this up further though.

[grey golfster]

Unfortunately, I suspect you'll have a problem with this....

I bought a pretty tidy looking black GT 170 a couple of months ago

But good luck nevertheless, keep us posted.

[19TW80]

Appreciate what you're alluding to, grey golfster i.e. 'If you bought the car after 01 October 2015, you only have 30 days to reject a second-hand car and get a full refund under the Consumer Rights Act'

However, the Consumer Rights Act does state that 'legally the seller must:

* Accurately describe the second-hand car (for example, an advert must not say 'one owner' when the car has had several)
* Not misrepresent the second-hand car (tell you something about the car which isn't true such as if it’s been in an accident, the owner must answer truthfully).

IMO, the 30-day rule would be utterly immaterial, if it can be proved that the seller was complicit in not doing either/both of the above bullet points.

[19TW80]

Keep a log of everything i.e. phone calls you make, time and duration of calls, names of people you speak to at the garage etc. and make sure you keep a screenshot of that text dialogue between you and the seller.

If the garage is local to you, maybe it's a good idea to get down there in person so as you can speak to the manager or the head mechanic, rather than getting fobbed off to some numpty on the phone. I'd keep questions to whoever you speak to at the garage as generic as possible, and at this stage I wouldn't even mention the fact that the car has issues. You simply want them to provide you with as much history relating to any work they've carried out on the car as they can, and importantly any advisories that they might have notified the previous owner about.

If your conversation with the garage uncovers anything that might suggest the seller was aware of these faults, then I'd get on to the Citizens Advice Bureau first thing on Monday morning - 03444111444.

I personally wouldn't have contacted the seller at this stage, but what's done is done.

Again, good luck.

[middlerhythm]

Called a couple of garages today that I have receipts from, they were willing to help out but could only pull records for the work I have receipts for, nothing more.

There are a couple of other garages on my list to contact so will follow these up on Monday.

Understandably, maybe I shouldn't have contacted the seller, now that I'm tracing the cars history. However, I do now have text evidence of the seller denying that the problems existed at the time of sale, might at least add some weight to the whole thing.

[MateyGuv]

Hate to bring this up but If you bought privately none of the consumer rights act applies.  The act is valid for products bought from a business. For vehicles that would be a dealer where you would also been supplied with a warranty and paperwork to show they have done their due diligence stuff to prove they are confident they are supplying a working product.

The only legal terms that cover a private sale contract are:

the seller must have the right to sell the car
the vehicle should match the description given by the seller
the car must be roadworthy - it is a criminal offence to sell an unroadworthy car and an MOT certificate from a test several months ago is no guarantee that the car is roadworthy today.

[xjay1337]

Mateyguv is correct.
Stop wasting your time trying to chase up the idea you can get money for the faults from the previous owner.
the faults obviously werent there as you've only just noticed them.

You said it yourself.
"You didnt pick this up when driving the car".

[Oldy]

What was hinted at by grey golfster, and put bluntly by MateyGuv and xjay1337, is absolutely correct.  In buying privately it is absolutely "buyer beware".  All the recommendations are to have the car inspected prior to purchase.  Sorry but your time and money will be better spent on getting the car put right.

[middlerhythm]

Well, the point of this thread originally was to get some advice on the work needing to be done. It was merely an after thought from 19TW80 about investigating some of the history.

I'm not after any sympathy, I'm fully aware of the need to have cars checked over before purchasing, and it's my own fault for not doing so.

Regardless of this, I've learnt a fair amount in the process. I'm not going to have the local garage fit the inlet manifold for £560 + VAT + Labour. I've found that the alloy manifold from the BKD engine will fit my BMN engine, and costs less than £100. Seems to be a pretty straight forward job, and will give my EGR and ASV a good clean while I'm at it.

The clutch and gearbox will need to be done by the garage, but have bought a second hand box for £400 on Ebay and a Sachs DMF and clutch kit for a similar price. Looking like I'm going to be spending less money, but it's still not ideal!

[MateyGuv]

Sorry if my comment came across as blunt - I was just trying to save you some frustration and time. The last half of my comment was cut and pasted from the government website.
All the best on getting everything sorted