Mk5 Edition 30 (Wheel hop/Tramping)

[BakeyUkgti]

Hello to one and all,

Does anyone else have the issue when pulling away quickly or, like me overtaking a parked bus the other morning on the way home from work whereby i had wheel spin / tramping? It seems like the traction control doesn't kick in quick enough in first to stop it? The noise that comes from the front end tramping is horrific! I needed to get past the bus quickly as vehicles where coming towards me however, the banging from the tramping makes you back off the throttle then feed it back in. Its quite difficult not to get this problem especially with DSG as you quickly ask for power so put your foot to the floor, this iduces wheel spin which in turn creates the tramping and banging. Is there any mods that can stop this?

Best regards

Ryan

[Andy]

these are always a good upgrade
https://www.awesomegti.com/shop-by-brand/powerflex-bushes/powerflex-anti-lift-kit/

[BakeyUkgti]

Thanks for your response!

Do these put a stop to the issue i have described?

regards

Ryan

[AJP]

An anti lift kit won't completely cure it, but will go some way towards it along with other mods. The Superpro kit seems to get the best reviews.

As for other mods, uprated engine/gearbox mounts are a must if you're serious about it. Shorter, stiffer suspension, good tyres, and proper alignment too. It's being able to minimise weight transfer and engine slop that'll help the most.

Booting it from a crawl/standstill will only ever invite the car to lose traction. Try to modulate the throttle a bit and you should make better progress with less drama.

[Shamm]

@BakeyUkgti

Do you mean it judders?

[pudding]

Yep, console bushes and an uprated dogbone mount usually sort it.

The ABS part of the traction control (brakes the spinning wheel) only works up to 25mph.  After that it's just fuel / spark cut type stuff.

You feel it working the most in corners.  In a straight line, the TC doesn't do a lot and skins the tyres off quite nicely, especially when remapped!

This is the reason why a lot of remapped GTI/ED30 owners eventually defect to the darkside of an S3 or 6R for it's 4WD.

[lukemk5gti]

these are always a good upgrade
https://www.awesomegti.com/shop-by-brand/powerflex-bushes/powerflex-anti-lift-kit/

In all my years on the forum I've never asked what their purpose was, I always assumed it was for better suspension over bumps to be honest.

What's the engineering behind the traction control support?

[pudding]

these are always a good upgrade
https://www.awesomegti.com/shop-by-brand/powerflex-bushes/powerflex-anti-lift-kit/

In all my years on the forum I've never asked what their purpose was, I always assumed it was for better suspension over bumps to be honest.

What's the engineering behind the traction control support?

As above.  A spinning wheel is braked, which transfers power to the other wheel, but it only works up to 25mph, so good for snow and ice.  After that it's spark/fuel cut and throttle closure type stuff.

The Edition 30 gets ESP in addition to that, which uses an accelerometer box to further help with traction and stability, but in reality, mine spins it's tits off.

[lukemk5gti]

these are always a good upgrade
https://www.awesomegti.com/shop-by-brand/powerflex-bushes/powerflex-anti-lift-kit/

In all my years on the forum I've never asked what their purpose was, I always assumed it was for better suspension over bumps to be honest.

What's the engineering behind the traction control support?

As above.  A spinning wheel is braked, which transfers power to the other wheel, but it only works up to 25mph, so good for snow and ice.  After that it's spark/fuel cut and throttle closure type stuff.

The Edition 30 gets ESP in addition to that, which uses an accelerometer box to further help with traction and stability, but in reality, mine spins it's tits off.

I still don't understand EXACTLY what the anti lift kit does though? I know how traction control and ESP work but how does a mechanical item help?

[flashp]

Have a read here: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,108735.msg1053724.html#msg1053724

Toe angle change is a contributing factor and stabilized with an anti lift kit (name is bit misleading, doesn't have much to do with anything lifting). The console bush is very soft and big toe angle changes happen under braking and acceleration. Controlling this will provide a better contact patch.

Is your suspension overly hard?
Shocks / springs worn?
What tyres do you have? Even sticky tyres that are cold may struggle at times.
How old is the compound?
Was the road wet or dry?
Where you demanding max power while changing steering angle?

Essentially you loose grip then recover it. Helped, once the cycle starts, by very soft engine mounts. Read the thread I linked to earlier. When traction is lost torque in the drive train is unloaded and the engine/box move back to a relaxed position on their mounts, regain traction and the re-established torque throws the engine over in the mounts again and so you have a heavy pendulum in your engine bay.

Always best to do a full set of mounts so the load is spread evenly.

I have a stage 2 car(330 bhp and similar torque) with DSG and it is fine but you have to accept that no matter how well it puts power down it will always be a fwd and never behave like a rwd.

A well set up car will behave well but you won't achieve it necessarily on the cheap depending on where your car is now.

Maybe review your driving style also? 

[pudding]

these are always a good upgrade
https://www.awesomegti.com/shop-by-brand/powerflex-bushes/powerflex-anti-lift-kit/

In all my years on the forum I've never asked what their purpose was, I always assumed it was for better suspension over bumps to be honest.

What's the engineering behind the traction control support?

As above.  A spinning wheel is braked, which transfers power to the other wheel, but it only works up to 25mph, so good for snow and ice.  After that it's spark/fuel cut and throttle closure type stuff.

The Edition 30 gets ESP in addition to that, which uses an accelerometer box to further help with traction and stability, but in reality, mine spins it's tits off.

I still don't understand EXACTLY what the anti lift kit does though? I know how traction control and ESP work but how does a mechanical item help?

Ah sorry, I thought you were talking about the TC.  OK, the bushes....they basically stop the back of the wishbone from moving around.  Why it's called "Anti lift" I have no idea.  Marketing nonsense I suspect.  Posh wording for a geometry correcting bush.  If the wishbone doesn't flap about, you don't get axle hop, which is basically a tyre losing and regaining grip abruptly.  That force is transmitted back into the drivetrain and it's not good for the engine mounts or the gearbox.

They don't give you any more traction though, they just stop the wheel hop and keep the geometry stable during hard cornering.

[pudding]

Have a read here: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,108735.msg1053724.html#msg1053724

Toe angle change is a contributing factor and stabilized with an anti lift kit (name is bit misleading, doesn't have much to do with anything lifting). The console bush is very soft and big toe angle changes happen under braking and acceleration. Controlling this will provide a better contact patch.

Is your suspension overly hard?
Shocks / springs worn?
What tyres do you have? Even sticky tyres that are cold may struggle at times.
How old is the compound?
Was the road wet or dry?
Where you demanding max power while changing steering angle?

Essentially you loose grip then recover it. Helped, once the cycle starts, by very soft engine mounts. Read the thread I linked to earlier. When traction is lost torque in the drive train is unloaded and the engine/box move back to a relaxed position on their mounts, regain traction and the re-established torque throws the engine over in the mounts again and so you have a heavy pendulum in your engine bay.

Always best to do a full set of mounts so the load is spread evenly.

I have a stage 2 car(330 bhp and similar torque) with DSG and it is fine but you have to accept that no matter how well it puts power down it will always be a fwd and never behave like a rwd.

A well set up car will behave well but you won't achieve it necessarily on the cheap depending on where your car is now.

Maybe review your driving style also? 

Yep all of that 

[BakeyUkgti]

Thanks for all your responses. I will have a good dead through and go from there. The issue was basically from stand still. I am happy enough once moving I can control through throttle position to help stop spin. Thanks again, interesting reads!
Best regards
Ryan

[grey golfster]

Antilift:
I found the WALK (and dogbone, polybushings maybe?) etc helped to stop the front of the car body "lifting", I mean appearing to rise as the weight/load transfers to the rear under acceleration.

[pudding]

Ah so that's what they mean. Can't say I noticed it (I have the Whiteline ALK) but I can see the theory behind it.