balance shaft delete

[Daled0111]

i was wondering has anyone ever come a cross or have done a balance shaft delete, a company called vis motorsport sell a kit, well its the sprocket thats on the oil pump chain but it is single mass with no springs inside plus after fitting you have to cut on of the gears off so the balance shafts are then deleted,

has anyone hear or have done this.
thanks

[Vish8895]

Forgive my ignorance but what benefit would this bring?

Less resistance when revving? Like a lightened flywheel?

[Daled0111]

Forgive my ignorance but what benefit would this bring?

Less resistance when revving? Like a lightened flywheel?

Yes plus the oil pumps are known for failing because of the balance shafts

[GTIEagles]

I'm guessing the engine would lose some of it's smoothness because of this?

[rich83]

I don't see the value in doing this to be honest.

[pudding]

It's because the balance shaft bearings are prone to seizing, which causes the drive sprocket to sheer off with potentially disastrous results!

This comes up a lot on the TFSI group on fecesbook and is made out to be a super common problem (it isn't), but the one thing no one seems to answer is: "Does deleting the balancer assembly noticably increase NVH?".  Silence.  So I'll take that as a, "yes it does".  In which case a delete is not for me personally!

The full delete involves removing the entire thing and retrofitting the older 1.8T oil pump, which necessitates mods (of the drilling kind).  1.8T pumps used to have chain snapping issues back in the day, so it's kind of like jumping out of the pan and into the fire.

A semi-delete involves just disconnecting the balancer shafts and 'freewheeling' the drive sprocket.

I'd be interested to compare the part number of an early AXX pump assembly to a later one from say, a BYD or CDL to see if VW have updated it, but at ~£1500ish (last I heard), it's not a cheap thing to replace.

[Daled0111]

I am getting the car mapped to stage 2+ on the 24th and I have heard of oil pump failure and I don't want it to happen on mine

[Daled0111]

It's because the balance shaft bearings are prone to seizing, which causes the drive sprocket to sheer off with potentially disastrous results!

This comes up a lot on the TFSI group on fecesbook and is made out to be a super common problem (it isn't), but the one thing no one seems to answer is: "Does deleting the balancer assembly noticably increase NVH?".  Silence.  So I'll take that as a, "yes it does".  In which case a delete is not for me personally!

The full delete involves removing the entire thing and retrofitting the older 1.8T oil pump, which necessitates mods (of the drilling kind).  1.8T pumps used to have chain snapping issues back in the day, so it's kind of like jumping out of the pan and into the fire.

A semi-delete involves just disconnecting the balancer shafts and 'freewheeling' the drive sprocket.

I'd be interested to compare the part number of an early AXX pump assembly to a later one from say, a BYD or CDL to see if VW have updated it, but at ~£1500ish (last I heard), it's not a cheap thing to replace.

So am I worrying to much when I shouldnt

[Pesky jones]

Oil pump failures do happen, although there not the most common failure on our engines. I think you’re best of getting an opinion of a tfsi builder like AKS or TSR who will have dealt with this issue.

[pudding]

It's because the balance shaft bearings are prone to seizing, which causes the drive sprocket to sheer off with potentially disastrous results!

This comes up a lot on the TFSI group on fecesbook and is made out to be a super common problem (it isn't), but the one thing no one seems to answer is: "Does deleting the balancer assembly noticably increase NVH?".  Silence.  So I'll take that as a, "yes it does".  In which case a delete is not for me personally!

The full delete involves removing the entire thing and retrofitting the older 1.8T oil pump, which necessitates mods (of the drilling kind).  1.8T pumps used to have chain snapping issues back in the day, so it's kind of like jumping out of the pan and into the fire.

A semi-delete involves just disconnecting the balancer shafts and 'freewheeling' the drive sprocket.

I'd be interested to compare the part number of an early AXX pump assembly to a later one from say, a BYD or CDL to see if VW have updated it, but at ~£1500ish (last I heard), it's not a cheap thing to replace.

So am I worrying to much when I shouldnt

Yep.  Mapping doesn't put any more strain on the balancer as it has to spin regardless.  What probably doesn't help with balancer lifespan is revving the crap out of the engine, so I would set the rev limiter to about 7100rpm.  The stock turbo isn't doing anything up there anyway, other than choking the engine, so no point going to 7500-8000rpm.

The trouble with the FB group is there are a lot of racers on there pushing for the most hp possible.  They don't care about NVH, engine lifespan or any of the other refinements that make a GTI such a good all rounder.  And it goes without saying, a large group of people generates exaggeration and sensationalism.

[Pesky jones]

It's because the balance shaft bearings are prone to seizing, which causes the drive sprocket to sheer off with potentially disastrous results!

This comes up a lot on the TFSI group on fecesbook and is made out to be a super common problem (it isn't), but the one thing no one seems to answer is: "Does deleting the balancer assembly noticably increase NVH?".  Silence.  So I'll take that as a, "yes it does".  In which case a delete is not for me personally!

The full delete involves removing the entire thing and retrofitting the older 1.8T oil pump, which necessitates mods (of the drilling kind).  1.8T pumps used to have chain snapping issues back in the day, so it's kind of like jumping out of the pan and into the fire.

A semi-delete involves just disconnecting the balancer shafts and 'freewheeling' the drive sprocket.

I'd be interested to compare the part number of an early AXX pump assembly to a later one from say, a BYD or CDL to see if VW have updated it, but at ~£1500ish (last I heard), it's not a cheap thing to replace.

So am I worrying to much when I shouldnt

Yep.  Mapping doesn't put any more strain on the balancer as it has to spin regardless.  What probably doesn't help with balancer lifespan is revving the crap out of the engine, so I would set the rev limiter to about 7100rpm.  The stock turbo isn't doing anything up there anyway, other than choking the engine, so no point going to 7500-8000rpm.

The trouble with the FB group is there are a lot of racers on there pushing for the most hp possible.  They don't care about NVH, engine lifespan or any of the other refinements that make a GTI such a good all rounder.  And it goes without saying, a large group of people generates exaggeration and sensationalism.

+1! Well put

[flashp]

One reason why I like the conservative mapping by Revo. That and because the installer who is my service agent is on my doorstep.
My turbo has a 60% duty cycle for 330bhp. Quite safe.

[Daled0111]

Oil pump failures do happen, although there not the most common failure on our engines. I think you’re best of getting an opinion of a tfsi builder like AKS or TSR who will have dealt with this issue.

have spoken to AKS and TSR by email and
AKS - offer the service to basically do what i am doing, and said it is safe
TSR - they said they offer a billet pump for 900 plus that deletes the shafts but the way i was thinking should be good

[rich83]

I think you are worrying about nothing here. The percentage of failures is small.

[Shoduchi]

One reason why I like the conservative mapping by Revo. That and because the installer who is my service agent is on my doorstep.
My turbo has a 60% duty cycle for 330bhp. Quite safe.

That refers to the N75 duty cycle, right? Mine is doing a bit less than that, for what I recall seeing with PolarFIS. At what rpm are you referring that 60% duty cycle, so I can check next time on mine?