Inconsistent handling help needed

[wrlcs]

I've gradually been modifying my scirocco and now have SALK, LCA, eibach ARB, vibratechnics dogbone and eibach coilovers.  On a good day the handling is great and improving with each mod.  However, since buying the car over 2 years ago I have had variable handling where one week it is spot on and the next the steering is a bit vague, turn in sloppy and a feel of needing to correct the steering regularly.  After a while things return to spot on.  This is independent of the mods and has happened when unmodded right through until today.  So the question is, what can vary or change to cause this type of situation?  With the mods done so far I hoped this would go away but unfortunately not. I'm happy to spend a reasonable amount more to sort this but don't want to continue if this will persist.

Thanks, Brendan

[r5gtt]

Hi mate,

Have you had it 4 wheel aligned?

Suspension struts springs top mounts done?

[wrlcs]

I had new TT top mounts when i had coilovers fitted about a month ago and alignment done and all was well, gradually things have become sloppy., a new alignment could be useful if things have settled since the coilivers were fitted. . The strange thing is that this happens randomly and whether my car was unmidded or at different stages of modification.  My ball joints are super Pro adjustable and fairly new but the track rods are original. I'm wondering  whether to change  those.  In addition the rear bushes have had no work but the ARB is new.  I would throw on some Ohlins if i could guarantee  that this inconsistent behaviour disappeared for the better.
Brendan

[Stig_gti]

Is it the subframe shifting in and out of position.
I have pretty much same mods as you suspension wise and when pushing hard I can fill it moving around. Dead set collar kit I'm fitting next.

[SI-R32]

Is it the subframe shifting in and out of position.
I have pretty much same mods as you suspension wise and when pushing hard I can fill it moving around. Dead set collar kit I'm fitting next.

Hi there, have you got a link to this dead set kit at all, think that's what I maybe need.

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[The Red Warrior]

Is it the subframe shifting in and out of position.
I have pretty much same mods as you suspension wise and when pushing hard I can fill it moving around. Dead set collar kit I'm fitting next.

Hi there, have you got a link to this dead set kit at all, think that's what I maybe need.

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I'm guessing this:

http://www.tyrolsport.com/suspension/chassis/tyrolsport-deadset-rigid-subframe-collar-kit-for-all-mk5/6-jetta-gli-and-mk2-audi-tt/

[wrlcs]

I may try a dead set and superpro rear bush kit and then visit centre of gravity to get a full setup. After that i may live with the result.

[flashp]

Ambient temperature related possibly, bushes becoming overly compliant through wear/ageing as weather warms up and stiffening in colder weather.
How old is the car and how many miles has it done?

[flashp]

I had new TT top mounts when i had coilovers fitted about a month ago and alignment done and all was well, gradually things have become sloppy., a new alignment could be useful if things have settled since the coilivers were fitted. . The strange thing is that this happens randomly and whether my car was unmidded or at different stages of modification.  My ball joints are super Pro adjustable and fairly new but the track rods are original. I'm wondering  whether to change  those.  In addition the rear bushes have had no work but the ARB is new.  I would throw on some Ohlins if i could guarantee  that this inconsistent behaviour disappeared for the better.
Brendan

There's something wrong, chucking £2k at suspension isn't required to get this fixed. Yes, you could mop up an inexpensive fault in the process but you still wouldn't know what was wrong in the first instance.

[wrlcs]

Hi, it's a 2009 2.0tsi Scirocco with 70k on the clock. I agree that i was hoping that the planned mods would mop up the problem but now they are done and it isn't sorted i need to be more scientific that spending more money without a good chance of success. In terms of what is most likely to cause variability i had thought of environmental factors and their affect on aged components. The question is therefore what are the most likely? At the front the control arms have been changed to superpro and I have a salk so new as well and eibach ARBs with bushes andctt top mounts I guess that leaves old steering components, drop links and subframe nuts and bolts.  At the rear i have eibach ARB but no other changes and that's why i thought rear bush kit could help.

One of the most sudden changes seemed to happen after i gave the wheel arches a good pressure wash and i wonder what that may mean.  Thanks for the help.b

Brendan

[flashp]

Hi, it's a 2009 2.0tsi Scirocco with 70k on the clock. I agree that i was hoping that the planned mods would mop up the problem but now they are done and it isn't sorted i need to be more scientific that spending more money without a good chance of success. In terms of what is most likely to cause variability i had thought of environmental factors and their affect on aged components. The question is therefore what are the most likely? At the front the control arms have been changed to superpro and I have a salk so new as well and eibach ARBs with bushes andctt top mounts I guess that leaves old steering components, drop links and subframe nuts and bolts.  At the rear i have eibach ARB but no other changes and that's why i thought rear bush kit could help.

One of the most sudden changes seemed to happen after i gave the wheel arches a good pressure wash and i wonder what that may mean.  Thanks for the help.b

Brendan

It's a confusing position to find yourself in I'm sure. I can't pretend to know much more than I've suggested but I know how I would deal with it and that's to find a competent specialist and put it in their hands. This isn't because I have buckets of £'s (which I don't  ) but because it could be the fastest route to get back to getting the best from the car and potentially save some cash on un-necessary parts.

Good luck with finding a fix, keep us posted! 

[r5gtt]

inner rack ends are another that can mess about as I had when I had an accident last year and the car was all over the place some days and driving fine other days

[pudding]

Car tuning is like playing Golf, the never ending quest for consistency.

There are so many variables involved here, it's hard to pinpoint it to something specific.  But bear in mind the mods you have already applied have stiffened up the chassis considerably, so will naturally make the car more twitchy on worn out roads.  Every component you stiffen up under there, moves the stresses onto the next weakest link, so.....

...check the following for play:

Front wheel bearings
Inner tie rod ends
Outer tie rod ends
Steering rack - play between rack and pinion.
Steering rack UJ

The tiniest amount of play in any of those components is amplified massively over the diameter of the steering wheel. For example, 0.5mm play at the rack/TRE/UJ = ~1cm of free play at the steering wheel.

How low is the car?  Too much lowering can also cause problems. 
What tyres have you got?  Golfs are picky with them in my experience.  For example, F1s = vague when half worn, PS4 = much better self centering and off centre feel.

You've done some bushes, but you might benefit from doing ALL of them, and not necessarily poly.  A lot of folk automatically go to poly, not realizing a new OE rubber bush is considerably stiffer than a 10 year old worn out squidgy one, and more compliant, and cheaper.

Try dialing in a bit of front toe.  They don't run any as standard, which can cause a bit of twitchiness in the steering wheel.

Even the standard suspension is twitchy, so you face a big battle getting aftermarket suspension to feel consistent!

[wrlcs]

I'm learning that modification is more complicated than i thought and there are times when changing to a different car is an attractive option.   I have now developed some knocking at the rear so took the car in to the garage where the coilovers were fitted.  They said that eibachs coilovers do this and there's nothing wrong with anything else.  They didn't want to know.  This goes to show how important the garage is.  I'm booked in to a different garage to take a look.  This could be rear top mounts, drop links etc and perhaps that is linked to the general problems that I'm having.

Tyres are PS4 on the front and Avon ZZ5 on the back, all about half worn.  If sorting the knocking out settles the handling overall then good if not then i will change the tie rods and rear bushes and get it setup properly.

The car isn't worth a lot cash wise so I'm still better trying to improve it than swap it so I'll persever for now.

[pudding]

Yeah it can be, and expensive!  I've been modifying VWs since 1990 and the one thing I've learned when it comes to daily cars is - the factory spec is pretty much spot on, but we feel compelled to change things anyway, and then gradually revert things back to standard 

If you change to a different car, the cycle repeats itself, so you may as well stick with what you've got.

Suspension knock is not normal and I'm sure Eibach would disagree with your garage, so good that you're taking it elsewhere.  People rarely change the rear top mounts because they last a long time, so you could try a pair of new ones.  There is also a pair of rubber mounting pads for each rear spring, so refresh those whilst you're there. 

I don't think there's anything majorly wrong with your car.  You'd know if any parts were completely shot.