suspension overhaul @ 110k

[pudding]

Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:

VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment

That lot has completely transformed the car.  Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality.  The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.

I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements 

sounds like you have a really good setup, similar to what i'm aiming for!

I was going to go for the VWR kit but chose the ST in the end as it was the same drop and sounded very similar but was cheaper and available on 0%  , hopefully it will be as good although there isnt a huge amount of info around on the ST kit.

I've only recently read about using the B6 arms to save unsprung weight otherwise i would have gone for those too, whats the advantages of the B6 ball joints?

The arms only save 1kg mate.  It's the hubs (aka bearing housings) that shave off the most weight, but I chose to keep everything Passat and therefore consistent as all those bits were designed to work with each other 

The advantage of the B6 ball joints you ask?  It all hinges around roll center and bump steer.  Google those and see if they make any sense to you! It's pretty heavy reading 

This is one of the better diagrams I've seen.  The "Roll center adjusters" being the Passat ball joints on our Golfs.  The idea is to keep points A & B as close to each other as possible, which reduces the car's tendency to lean into corners.   



What I don't think many people realise is lowering a car and doing nothing else actually makes it roll more, not less.  Sounds counter intuitive right?  Stiffer arbs or springs are often used to counter act it, but a better way is to move the wishbone angles back to factory, which is what roll center correction is all about....and is what the Passat BJs do     This is why the sensible suspension kits only lower a very small amount as to not fck up the roll center.  You then don't need as stiff a spring, or big fat heavy ARBs either 

Bump steer is when the steering wheel snatches left / right uncontrollably when accelerating hard over bumps, or during turns over bumps (not to be confused with torque steer).   The wishbones and tie rods follow an arc, and on lowered cars, the arc can run out of travel and the wishbone to tie rod angles then get skewed.  As the hub rises into the wheel arch over a bump, the tie rod has no arc left and gets forced back into the steering rack, which the driver feels as a twitch in the wheel.  Nasty stuff.  Again, Mr Passat Ball Joint and sensible lowering heights fix that for you 

At the end of the day, that's all the lovely theory, but if the car doesn't do anything horrible on the road after you've lowered it, you don't need to worry too much.  I'm just ultra OCD about that stuff!

Do you think all of this would come into play with a 20mm drop or did you just change the parts to be on the safe side? I'm pretty OCD too so my list could be growing... 

You might find it's more than 20mm mate.  That's what the VWR kit is supposed to lower by, but I'd say it's nearer 30-35mm.  I can't get my jack under the sill anymore!

The above was an attempt to explain why going lower can have adverse affects, but the drop you and I have done won't impact things drastically.  I kept everything Passat for consistency and the ball joints do restore the correct wishbone angle, so it's all good, but not essential 

[reflexsilverfox]

Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:

VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment

That lot has completely transformed the car.  Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality.  The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.

I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements 

sounds like you have a really good setup, similar to what i'm aiming for!

I was going to go for the VWR kit but chose the ST in the end as it was the same drop and sounded very similar but was cheaper and available on 0%  , hopefully it will be as good although there isnt a huge amount of info around on the ST kit.

I've only recently read about using the B6 arms to save unsprung weight otherwise i would have gone for those too, whats the advantages of the B6 ball joints?

The arms only save 1kg mate.  It's the hubs (aka bearing housings) that shave off the most weight, but I chose to keep everything Passat and therefore consistent as all those bits were designed to work with each other 

The advantage of the B6 ball joints you ask?  It all hinges around roll center and bump steer.  Google those and see if they make any sense to you! It's pretty heavy reading 

This is one of the better diagrams I've seen.  The "Roll center adjusters" being the Passat ball joints on our Golfs.  The idea is to keep points A & B as close to each other as possible, which reduces the car's tendency to lean into corners.   



What I don't think many people realise is lowering a car and doing nothing else actually makes it roll more, not less.  Sounds counter intuitive right?  Stiffer arbs or springs are often used to counter act it, but a better way is to move the wishbone angles back to factory, which is what roll center correction is all about....and is what the Passat BJs do     This is why the sensible suspension kits only lower a very small amount as to not fck up the roll center.  You then don't need as stiff a spring, or big fat heavy ARBs either 

Bump steer is when the steering wheel snatches left / right uncontrollably when accelerating hard over bumps, or during turns over bumps (not to be confused with torque steer).   The wishbones and tie rods follow an arc, and on lowered cars, the arc can run out of travel and the wishbone to tie rod angles then get skewed.  As the hub rises into the wheel arch over a bump, the tie rod has no arc left and gets forced back into the steering rack, which the driver feels as a twitch in the wheel.  Nasty stuff.  Again, Mr Passat Ball Joint and sensible lowering heights fix that for you 

At the end of the day, that's all the lovely theory, but if the car doesn't do anything horrible on the road after you've lowered it, you don't need to worry too much.  I'm just ultra OCD about that stuff!

Do you think all of this would come into play with a 20mm drop or did you just change the parts to be on the safe side? I'm pretty OCD too so my list could be growing... 

You might find it's more than 20mm mate.  That's what the VWR kit is supposed to lower by, but I'd say it's nearer 30-35mm.  I can't get my jack under the sill anymore!

The above was an attempt to explain why going lower can have adverse affects, but the drop you and I have done won't impact things drastically.  I kept everything Passat for consistency and the ball joints do restore the correct wishbone angle, so it's all good, but not essential 

Ok I'll leave the Passat bits for now then and see how it feels. Thanks for the advice mate, much appreciated 

[splashalot]

Apologies for the thread hijack, but I'll be brief.

I have owned since new a 2007 Golf GTI on the std 17" Denver mags and Conti Sport Contact 5s in 225/45/17W.  Now at 96,000kms (~60,000 miles).  Since new the "jiggling" from the suspension has annoyed me.  That is, small incessant sharp vertical movements.  In all other respects the suspension is terrific - stability, impact absorption etc.   However, I would like to make the ride smoother if possible. 

I've tried many tyre pressures from 38psi all round down to 30psi rear and 32psi front, with little change in the jiggling.

I put a pair of Koni Sport on the rear, set to full soft, but these have made little if any difference. 

Ideally I want to maintain stock (or close to it) ride height for driveway clearance purposes, so cannot consider springs which lower the car significantly.

Any suggestions?

Plan B is to buy a Mk7 GTI with adaptive chassis control ;-).  But obviously plan A would be a lot cheaper!

Cheers.

[f00glee]

Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:

VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment

That lot has completely transformed the car.  Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality.  The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.

I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements 

Pudding, would you be able to elaborate on this with part numbers - mainly for the passat parts? Looks to be a nice set up to aspire towards!

Cheers 

[pudding]

Apologies for the thread hijack, but I'll be brief.

I have owned since new a 2007 Golf GTI on the std 17" Denver mags and Conti Sport Contact 5s in 225/45/17W.  Now at 96,000kms (~60,000 miles).  Since new the "jiggling" from the suspension has annoyed me.  That is, small incessant sharp vertical movements.  In all other respects the suspension is terrific - stability, impact absorption etc.   However, I would like to make the ride smoother if possible. 

I've tried many tyre pressures from 38psi all round down to 30psi rear and 32psi front, with little change in the jiggling.

I put a pair of Koni Sport on the rear, set to full soft, but these have made little if any difference. 

Ideally I want to maintain stock (or close to it) ride height for driveway clearance purposes, so cannot consider springs which lower the car significantly.

Any suggestions?

Plan B is to buy a Mk7 GTI with adaptive chassis control ;-).  But obviously plan A would be a lot cheaper!

Cheers.

New standard springs with VW RacingLine dampers would probably achieve what you want.

[pudding]

Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:

VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment

That lot has completely transformed the car.  Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality.  The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.

I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements 

Pudding, would you be able to elaborate on this with part numbers - mainly for the passat parts? Looks to be a nice set up to aspire towards!

Cheers 

The Passat stuff is all ebay mate, just search for "Passat B6 wishbones" and "Passat B6 front bearing housings" or "Hubs".

I'll try and dig through my invoices for part numbers on the ball joints and bolts / nuts / bearings etc.

[f00glee]

Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:

VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment

That lot has completely transformed the car.  Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality.  The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.

I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements 

Pudding, would you be able to elaborate on this with part numbers - mainly for the passat parts? Looks to be a nice set up to aspire towards!

Cheers 

The Passat stuff is all ebay mate, just search for "Passat B6 wishbones" and "Passat B6 front bearing housings" or "Hubs".

I'll try and dig through my invoices for part numbers on the ball joints and bolts / nuts / bearings etc.

Okay mate, thanks for the reply. Its always nice to have the numbers from someone who had had the work done to take any doubt out of the equation.

Thanks again!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pudding]

Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:

VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment

That lot has completely transformed the car.  Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality.  The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.

I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements 

Pudding, would you be able to elaborate on this with part numbers - mainly for the passat parts? Looks to be a nice set up to aspire towards!

Cheers 

The Passat stuff is all ebay mate, just search for "Passat B6 wishbones" and "Passat B6 front bearing housings" or "Hubs".

I'll try and dig through my invoices for part numbers on the ball joints and bolts / nuts / bearings etc.

Okay mate, thanks for the reply. Its always nice to have the numbers from someone who had had the work done to take any doubt out of the equation.

Thanks again!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tell me about it.  90% of the internet part numbers I go into a dealer with end up being wrong or changed to a different number 

[splashalot]

Apologies for the thread hijack, but I'll be brief.

I have owned since new a 2007 Golf GTI on the std 17" Denver mags and Conti Sport Contact 5s in 225/45/17W.  Now at 96,000kms (~60,000 miles).  Since new the "jiggling" from the suspension has annoyed me.  That is, small incessant sharp vertical movements.  In all other respects the suspension is terrific - stability, impact absorption etc.   However, I would like to make the ride smoother if possible. 

I've tried many tyre pressures from 38psi all round down to 30psi rear and 32psi front, with little change in the jiggling.

I put a pair of Koni Sport on the rear, set to full soft, but these have made little if any difference. 

Ideally I want to maintain stock (or close to it) ride height for driveway clearance purposes, so cannot consider springs which lower the car significantly.

Any suggestions?

Plan B is to buy a Mk7 GTI with adaptive chassis control ;-).  But obviously plan A would be a lot cheaper!

Cheers.

New standard springs with VW RacingLine dampers would probably achieve what you want.

Thanks for the response, Pudding.  You seem very knowledgeable re. suspension options - I'm enjoying your posts.

Cheers.

[Tazocin]

Another thumbs up to the people offering advice on this thread, since I fitted my Bilsteins I've become more aware of the sounds around the front end and at 120k miles on stock parts I suspect most of the wishbone bushes are pretty loose (some gentle klunks and I cant find anything loose on the suspension). Was gonna change them all out but will try and do a complete swap as per Puddings Passat list! Lots of second hand passat hubs on ebay which should be fine but any recommendations for bearings? Unsure on how to tell quality so for solid lumps of metal like hub or wishbone I'm happy with ebay but I assume I want a bit more quality with a bearing?

Also, stupid question but am I looking for passat bearings if I fit a passat hub or will mk5 ones still fit?

[mk1mad]

Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:

VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment

That lot has completely transformed the car.  Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality.  The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.

I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements 

Pudding, would you be able to elaborate on this with part numbers - mainly for the passat parts? Looks to be a nice set up to aspire towards!

Cheers 

The Passat stuff is all ebay mate, just search for "Passat B6 wishbones" and "Passat B6 front bearing housings" or "Hubs".

I'll try and dig through my invoices for part numbers on the ball joints and bolts / nuts / bearings etc.

Quick question do you have to drop the front subframe to fit  the front wishbones as planning the passat parts upgrade.

[Tazocin]

Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:

VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment

That lot has completely transformed the car.  Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality.  The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.

I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements 

Pudding, would you be able to elaborate on this with part numbers - mainly for the passat parts? Looks to be a nice set up to aspire towards!

Cheers 

The Passat stuff is all ebay mate, just search for "Passat B6 wishbones" and "Passat B6 front bearing housings" or "Hubs".

I'll try and dig through my invoices for part numbers on the ball joints and bolts / nuts / bearings etc.

Quick question do you have to drop the front subframe to fit  the front wishbones as planning the passat parts upgrade.

If I remember its DSG cars that need subframe dropping, manuals have room to remove front bush bolt without subframe removal. Happy to be corrected on this if I got it muddled.

[Shoduchi]

Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:

VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment

That lot has completely transformed the car.  Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality.  The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.

I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements 

Pudding, would you be able to elaborate on this with part numbers - mainly for the passat parts? Looks to be a nice set up to aspire towards!

Cheers 

The Passat stuff is all ebay mate, just search for "Passat B6 wishbones" and "Passat B6 front bearing housings" or "Hubs".

I'll try and dig through my invoices for part numbers on the ball joints and bolts / nuts / bearings etc.

Quick question do you have to drop the front subframe to fit  the front wishbones as planning the passat parts upgrade.

If I remember its DSG cars that need subframe dropping, manuals have room to remove front bush bolt without subframe removal. Happy to be corrected on this if I got it muddled.

It's possible to remove the front bush bolt by releasing the DSG from its mount and raising it with a jack enough to make the bolt pass below it.

[mk1mad]

Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:

VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment

That lot has completely transformed the car.  Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality.  The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.

I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements 

Pudding, would you be able to elaborate on this with part numbers - mainly for the passat parts? Looks to be a nice set up to aspire towards!

Cheers 

The Passat stuff is all ebay mate, just search for "Passat B6 wishbones" and "Passat B6 front bearing housings" or "Hubs".

I'll try and dig through my invoices for part numbers on the ball joints and bolts / nuts / bearings etc.

Quick question do you have to drop the front subframe to fit  the front wishbones as planning the passat parts upgrade.

If I remember its DSG cars that need subframe dropping, manuals have room to remove front bush bolt without subframe removal. Happy to be corrected on this if I got it muddled.

It's possible to remove the front bush bolt by releasing the DSG from its mount and raising it with a jack enough to make the bolt pass below it.

Thanks for the advise, my car is DSG and I was thinking I would have to drop the subframe to get the front bolt out.

[Shoduchi]

It's a battery out and CAI out, if you have the CAI. My friend did that when he fitted the alloy arms in my Ed. 30 that's DSG too.