Timing chain issues

[mayesj86]

Sounds like you've got to go and see it for yourself, get your car back and take it somewhere else. Hopefully the bolt wont be too rounded. Not a job I'd fancy doing myself.

What a nightmare - feel for you and hope you get it sorted soon

I can only go on what they were saying unfortunately. I cant get my head round snapping 2 of the correct sockets before the head rounded but they say it didn't round.
Im not too bothered about doing it myself its the thought of getting it wrong that's the worst bit. The write up on the forum is fantastic and details everything step by step. There is another independent garage here im going to have a chat with as he gets a great write up with the Audi boys.
Will keep updating.

[Pesky jones]

If the bolt isn’t rounded (im skeptical) then it’s not the end of the world, just needs the correct tool with correct application (second person to hold the tool in the bolt, whilst first person turns the breaker bar). The bolt is tight, but I’ve done the job twice now using the above method with no problems.

I reckon the bolt isn’t in a good way personally.

[mayesj86]

If the bolt isn’t rounded (im skeptical) then it’s not the end of the world, just needs the correct tool with correct application (second person to hold the tool in the bolt, whilst first person turns the breaker bar). The bolt is tight, but I’ve done the job twice now using the above method with no problems.

I reckon the bolt isn’t in a good way personally.

To be honest im sceptical about the whole story. I honestly cant see the bolt being in a good nick if they have put as much torque through it as they say they have and "snapped" the tools.
Im going to have a chat with another specialist today for his opinion which will probably be the same as ours and strip it down next weekend when im off to have a look at what im working with. If its a good enough condition I will just use the excellent guide on here to finish the job myself with a helper at hand.

My gut feeling is the bolt is gubbed but I need to see it for myself. I'm still raging!!

[Pesky jones]

I would be too mate. Yeah once you know the condition you can go from there. Where in the country are you ?

[mayesj86]

I would be too mate. Yeah once you know the condition you can go from there. Where in the country are you ?

I live in Scotland buddy in between Edinburgh and Glasgow. There isn't very many VAG specialist In this area.
I'm actually starting to dread what mess I'm going to find under the cover but fingers crossed there is something that I can work with 
Off to VW this afternoon to order the correct tools for locking cams, removing bolt and adjusting the pulley if it required along with the chain , tensioner and all gaskets.

[pudding]

If the bolt isn’t rounded (im skeptical) then it’s not the end of the world, just needs the correct tool with correct application (second person to hold the tool in the bolt, whilst first person turns the breaker bar). The bolt is tight, but I’ve done the job twice now using the above method with no problems.

I reckon the bolt isn’t in a good way personally.

That is absolutely key to successful removal of the bolt, or a decent cordless impact wrench / air gun. 

I had a mate do the same on a rear wheel bearing job because the head of the bolt on that is also stupidly shallow like the cam bolt.

To be fair to VAG technicians / master techs, they aren't usually trained, or even allowed to drill out stripped bolts etc.  VAG teach them to be parts swappers.  They're not paid to spend hours on fixing something when an entire new part(s) can be bolted on in a lot less time.

Another thing to bear in mind is these cars are now at the age where this is happening.  Not all technicians / master techs will have done this job working at dealers X years ago, so it's new to them.  VAG's stance on it is - no service schedule.  So they were not geared up for swapping them.  I remember when MK4 R32 chains used to stretch.  My god, the cock ups and hassle dealer techs had with that fiasco!!!  Cars returned to customers a tooth out, fault codes, reduced power.....all sorts of agro, and it's a gearbox off job on that car, so a full day's work - to have to do again if it's done wrong.  Who was at fault?  VW for not properly training their staff on replacing wear items properly, or at all, or their closed book "No service schedule on this part" attitude?

What I'm trying to say there's a lot of "in the know" knowledge with these cars that usually only Hobbyists find out and know, and it's the people who turn a hobby into a business that often succeed in this game.

So anyway, go easy on these guys.  I get you're annoyed but banging tables rarely gets you anywhere.  Give them a chance to rectify it, but don't pay over the odds.

[mayesj86]

If the bolt isn’t rounded (im skeptical) then it’s not the end of the world, just needs the correct tool with correct application (second person to hold the tool in the bolt, whilst first person turns the breaker bar). The bolt is tight, but I’ve done the job twice now using the above method with no problems.

I reckon the bolt isn’t in a good way personally.

That is absolutely key to successful removal of the bolt, or a decent cordless impact wrench / air gun. 

I had a mate do the same on a rear wheel bearing job because the head of the bolt on that is also stupidly shallow like the cam bolt.

To be fair to VAG technicians / master techs, they aren't usually trained, or even allowed to drill out stripped bolts etc.  VAG teach them to be parts swappers.  They're not paid to spend hours on fixing something when an entire new part(s) can be bolted on in a lot less time.

Another thing to bear in mind is these cars are now at the age where this is happening.  Not all technicians / master techs will have done this job working at dealers X years ago, so it's new to them.  VAG's stance on it is - no service schedule.  So they were not geared up for swapping them.  I remember when MK4 R32 chains used to stretch.  My god, the cock ups and hassle dealer techs had with that fiasco!!!  Cars returned to customers a tooth out, fault codes, reduced power.....all sorts of agro, and it's a gearbox off job on that car, so a full day's work - to have to do again if it's done wrong.  Who was at fault?  VW for not properly training their staff on replacing wear items properly, or at all, or their closed book "No service schedule on this part" attitude?

What I'm trying to say there's a lot of "in the know" knowledge with these cars that usually only Hobbyists find out and know, and it's the people who turn a hobby into a business that often succeed in this game.

So anyway, go easy on these guys.  I get you're annoyed but banging tables rarely gets you anywhere.  Give them a chance to rectify it, but don't pay over the odds.

I have been back in touch with the garage and they are maintaining that the only solution is to either remove the cam and VVT unit to try remove the bolt in the vice or machine shop to drill it out or remove the other cam leaving the VVT unit in place and changing it that way. They cant give me a quote as to how much the work is going to be as there is too many variables they say.
I may rant and rave a wee bit here but try to remain professional and use the politically correct filter at all times when dealing with them. Its hard when the 3 mechanics are basically shouting at you saying they are right and you are wrong.

I have been to see that other specialist and he is thinking the same as me that the bolt has probably been stripped and they just wont admit it...again just speculation until I get it to bits and find out.

All the kit has been ordered from VW to strip and rebuild.

[pudding]

Well there's no need for them to get stroppy with you, it's very unprofessional, so I can understand your frustration now!

It does sound like they have messed it up and aren't confident drilling out the bolt in situ.  If you haven't already recovered the car, I would do so.  They had their chance and messed it up!

[Dan_FR]

Get down there and examine the bolt for damage.  They've obviously damaged it, most likely from using the nearest fitting spline tool they had to hand. See it all thr time with garages unfortunately.

[mayesj86]

Well there's no need for them to get stroppy with you, it's very unprofessional, so I can understand your frustration now!

It does sound like they have messed it up and aren't confident drilling out the bolt in situ.  If you haven't already recovered the car, I would do so.  They had their chance and messed it up!

It was the bullying tactics that got my back against the wall more than them not doing the job.

My gut feeling is they have messed up and wont admit it to save face and hoped I would just say get on with it. I went and picked it up on Tuesday after they told me they were just putting it back together and would need to re book it in to have cams removed as they were too busy and fully booked for another week.....if im honest that really annoyed me that part of it.

All parts will be here this afternoon hopefully so next weekend I will have a look and see what the story is with the bolt. If its stripped fine I will deal with it at the time have all equipment and tools to drill it if required. I would have done the work myself if work hadn't got in the way but I have now made the time to have a look and a go. The guide rich83 posted looks brilliant and comprehensive.

[mayesj86]

Get down there and examine the bolt for damage.  They've obviously damaged it, most likely from using the nearest fitting spline tool they had to hand. See it all thr time with garages unfortunately.

They put the car back together before I could get there as they didn't have time or space this week to do the job the way they wanted so I was required to re book it. Unfortunately I can only speculate that the bolt has been stripped but my gut is telling me it has. I cant see how the tools would snap before the bolt would go if it were that tight but that's just my opinion on it.
I have ordered everything from VW so hopefully be here this afternoon and I have made the time - which I should have before - to have a go myself next weekend and ordered a huge gazebo to keep the car covered in case it gets a bit wild outside ( Scotland and all). Its just a little bit frustrating the whole situation and their attitude and responses to my questions really hacked me off.

[pudding]

Well there's no need for them to get stroppy with you, it's very unprofessional, so I can understand your frustration now!

It does sound like they have messed it up and aren't confident drilling out the bolt in situ.  If you haven't already recovered the car, I would do so.  They had their chance and messed it up!

It was the bullying tactics that got my back against the wall more than them not doing the job.

My gut feeling is they have messed up and wont admit it to save face and hoped I would just say get on with it. I went and picked it up on Tuesday after they told me they were just putting it back together and would need to re book it in to have cams removed as they were too busy and fully booked for another week.....if im honest that really annoyed me that part of it.

All parts will be here this afternoon hopefully so next weekend I will have a look and see what the story is with the bolt. If its stripped fine I will deal with it at the time have all equipment and tools to drill it if required. I would have done the work myself if work hadn't got in the way but I have now made the time to have a look and a go. The guide rich83 posted looks brilliant and comprehensive.

OK, well I'm glad you've rescued the car from them!  A bit of a sour experience for you.

Rich's guide is excellent.  I'd already done mine a week or so before he did, so didn't have the luxury of following a comprehensive guide like that, but it's all covered and spot on   

Have you got the VW cam locking tool and the VW spline tool for the bolt?  I really wouldn't recommend using any other brand of tool for this work.

[mayesj86]

Well there's no need for them to get stroppy with you, it's very unprofessional, so I can understand your frustration now!

It does sound like they have messed it up and aren't confident drilling out the bolt in situ.  If you haven't already recovered the car, I would do so.  They had their chance and messed it up!

It was the bullying tactics that got my back against the wall more than them not doing the job.

My gut feeling is they have messed up and wont admit it to save face and hoped I would just say get on with it. I went and picked it up on Tuesday after they told me they were just putting it back together and would need to re book it in to have cams removed as they were too busy and fully booked for another week.....if im honest that really annoyed me that part of it.

All parts will be here this afternoon hopefully so next weekend I will have a look and see what the story is with the bolt. If its stripped fine I will deal with it at the time have all equipment and tools to drill it if required. I would have done the work myself if work hadn't got in the way but I have now made the time to have a look and a go. The guide rich83 posted looks brilliant and comprehensive.

OK, well I'm glad you've rescued the car from them!  A bit of a sour experience for you.

Rich's guide is excellent.  I'd already done mine a week or so before he did, so didn't have the luxury of following a comprehensive guide like that, but it's all covered and spot on   

Have you got the VW cam locking tool and the VW spline tool for the bolt?  I really wouldn't recommend using any other brand of tool for this work.

Thankfully the car is back with me ticking timing chain and all. I have always hate putting my car into garages and unfortunately this has made that feelings a whole lot worse. I very rarely use garages if I can avoid apart from an MOT.

I have been studying the guide for the last 2 days and its brilliant the only thing I will need to double check is if my HPFP has the banjo bolt or not - car is an ED30 

All parts and tools are genuine VW items ( apart form socket set and torque set) I don't want to risk using inferior equipment and damaging the bolt if it isn't already. The job itself doesn't look too bad its just the thought of getting it wrong that's the slightly off putting thing. Take some brave pills and go for it 

[pudding]

Well there's no need for them to get stroppy with you, it's very unprofessional, so I can understand your frustration now!

It does sound like they have messed it up and aren't confident drilling out the bolt in situ.  If you haven't already recovered the car, I would do so.  They had their chance and messed it up!

It was the bullying tactics that got my back against the wall more than them not doing the job.

My gut feeling is they have messed up and wont admit it to save face and hoped I would just say get on with it. I went and picked it up on Tuesday after they told me they were just putting it back together and would need to re book it in to have cams removed as they were too busy and fully booked for another week.....if im honest that really annoyed me that part of it.

All parts will be here this afternoon hopefully so next weekend I will have a look and see what the story is with the bolt. If its stripped fine I will deal with it at the time have all equipment and tools to drill it if required. I would have done the work myself if work hadn't got in the way but I have now made the time to have a look and a go. The guide rich83 posted looks brilliant and comprehensive.

OK, well I'm glad you've rescued the car from them!  A bit of a sour experience for you.

Rich's guide is excellent.  I'd already done mine a week or so before he did, so didn't have the luxury of following a comprehensive guide like that, but it's all covered and spot on   

Have you got the VW cam locking tool and the VW spline tool for the bolt?  I really wouldn't recommend using any other brand of tool for this work.

Thankfully the car is back with me ticking timing chain and all. I have always hate putting my car into garages and unfortunately this has made that feelings a whole lot worse. I very rarely use garages if I can avoid apart from an MOT.

I have been studying the guide for the last 2 days and its brilliant the only thing I will need to double check is if my HPFP has the banjo bolt or not - car is an ED30 

All parts and tools are genuine VW items ( apart form socket set and torque set) I don't want to risk using inferior equipment and damaging the bolt if it isn't already. The job itself doesn't look too bad its just the thought of getting it wrong that's the slightly off putting thing. Take some brave pills and go for it 

Yeah it's a struggle to find a trustworthy one unfortunately!

I can't remember what year the fuel pump fittings changed, but my 07 ED30 has the non-banjo fitting, not sure what it's called - the easier one!

Good stuff.  After seeing how much the genuine cam locking tool bent undoing that bolt, I'd hate to use a pattern one!  It's not tightened to a high torque at all, but needs a lot of torque to break the friction removing the darn thing!

The only thing that gets a lot of people with this job is the timing.  Getting it a tooth out is common, but if you follow Rich's guide you'll be fine 

[Pesky jones]

You wont have banjo bolt. Only AXX and very early BWA engines have that