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Author Topic: What should I do before a Remap  (Read 4552 times)

Offline Reevenj

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What should I do before a Remap
« on: May 10, 2017, 10:38:43 am »
I am thinking about going for a remap in the near future, maybe stage 2 or stage 2+. I have read up on a few things and people are generally saying that its beneficial to do other things to the car first i.e coilovers, new bushes ect, instead of adding more power to an already ageing chassis. My car is completely stock atm, 2006 GTI DSG. What exactly is the best route to go with this as I am fairly new to all of this and slightly confused. To summarise I want to know what hardware mods I should be doing in order to get the best out of my car.

Thanks in advance.

Offline lukemk5gti

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Re: What should I do before a Remap
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2017, 11:55:57 am »
A lot for stage 2+

Make sure you can afford it now.

Brakes
Intake
Exhaust
Intercooler
Fuel Pump just to name a few.

Not to mention better servicing

Offline Manny_ED30

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Re: What should I do before a Remap
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2017, 02:10:05 pm »
May have to hijack this thread a little (Sorry)...if anyone can help. (hopefully this answers some of your questions too @Reevenj )

I'm looking to fit a exhaust, intake & fmic. with a remap can this make stage 2? If I were to go stage 2+ I would need the uprated fueling bits?

Basically my question is, with the above mods, would I HAVE to improve the fueling or will it be safe at stage 2?

Thank you in advance
Stealth Racing Stage 2+ Tornado Red 5dr DSG Edition 30
Mk2 Oak Green 16v -> 1.8T - Still Sleeping..

Offline pudding

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Re: What should I do before a Remap
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2017, 02:25:19 pm »
Imo.....Suspension first, then brakes, then power.    You can't put 400hp down in the corners or on a wet road anyway, so may as well get the foundations solid first.

The power you can get out of these engines is proportional to the hardware investment you put into them, so do that first and then map it.

Some tuners call for a HPFP for stage 2, some don't, but it's not the tuner's call, it's the engine's.  If it leans out at XXpsi boost, you need one, simple as that  :smiley:  Ditto the clutch if it slips.  You can either do all the hardware in advance and be well prepared, or you can wait for a weakness to show up and address it then.  I prefer the former approach.


2007 ED30 | 2009 TDI 140 | 2016 BMW 330D

Offline Richie-VRS

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Re: What should I do before a Remap
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2017, 06:33:39 pm »
I planned on going stage 2 and no more, I'm currently stage 2+ bluefin with a stack of new bits to go stage 3, it's a slippery slope!

Definelty get some brakes and suspension done first, I've got r32 front and rear set up which is good imo. I'm in the process of doing the suspension.

Offline chigmuss

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Re: What should I do before a Remap
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2017, 06:43:27 am »
R - Techs guide to required engine components will be a help to your planning for S2/+ but you definitely need the brakes in place very soon after mapping. Reigning in your enthusiasm until you can afford the requisite brakes isn't always easy, you don't want to be finding your standard brakes won't slow you down at a T junction or worse! The Porsche Boxster NQSBBK is reasonably affordable.

Offline Manny_ED30

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Re: What should I do before a Remap
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2017, 11:58:50 am »
Yes brakes are done.  I thought, a exhaust system, intake and fmic with neuspeed discharge pipes would be safe at stage 2 with standard fuel parts. I won't gamble on this though so maybe upgrading the fuel bits is something that shouldn't be ignored if going above stage 1?
Stealth Racing Stage 2+ Tornado Red 5dr DSG Edition 30
Mk2 Oak Green 16v -> 1.8T - Still Sleeping..

Offline AJP

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Re: What should I do before a Remap
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2017, 01:26:51 pm »
You'll get much more out of an uprated pump than any intake or charge pipes. And you'll be safeguarding against fuel cuts, which aren't uncommon with Stage 2 maps. Standard pumps are notoriously weak and inconsistent.

Put the money towards a pump.

Offline pudding

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Re: What should I do before a Remap
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2017, 02:40:51 pm »
R - Techs guide to required engine components will be a help to your planning for S2/+ but you definitely need the brakes in place very soon after mapping. Reigning in your enthusiasm until you can afford the requisite brakes isn't always easy, you don't want to be finding your standard brakes won't slow you down at a T junction or worse! The Porsche Boxster NQSBBK is reasonably affordable.

As we've discussed before, if you need massive brakes to stop for a T junction, it's your driving that's the problem, not the brakes  :grin:

I've been stage 1 ED30 for nearly 2 years and still running standard brakes  :smiley: 

Agreed with AJP, don't waste money on boost pipes, air filters and the like.  Focus on the things that are actually a restriction - the downpipe and the HPFP.

 


2007 ED30 | 2009 TDI 140 | 2016 BMW 330D

Offline chigmuss

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Re: What should I do before a Remap
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2017, 10:17:24 pm »
Errr, no. Ed 30 brakes are gash. You have 50 hp more at stage 1 than an r32 and brakes that were budgeted down. Anyway, you're happy with standard , I like braking late and being able to stop in an emergency situation. We're both happy

Offline xs2man

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Re: What should I do before a Remap
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2017, 08:43:59 am »
Errr, no. Ed 30 brakes are gash. You have 50 hp more at stage 1 than an r32 and brakes that were budgeted down. Anyway, you're happy with standard , I like braking late and being able to stop in an emergency situation. We're both happy

Standard brakes may well be gash, but they will still bring the car to a stop.  So they are "good enough" for their purpose.  If the car ends up not stopping at a junction, or not slowing down enough for a corner, it's not the brakes fault, it's the drivers.  Doesn't matter what brakes / suspension a car has got, it should always be driven within its limits regardless.  The limits change with bigger brakes or better suspension, but that doesn't stop the fact it should still be driven appropriately.

The OP has a GTI, no mention of ED30, so he is only looking at slightly more power (15-25 bhp) than a standard R32 when stage 2/2+.  So R32 set-up would work fine.  But standard set-up with good pads would also work well enough.

Offline pudding

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Re: What should I do before a Remap
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2017, 03:09:05 pm »
Errr, no. Ed 30 brakes are gash. You have 50 hp more at stage 1 than an r32 and brakes that were budgeted down. Anyway, you're happy with standard , I like braking late and being able to stop in an emergency situation. We're both happy

Standard brakes may well be gash, but they will still bring the car to a stop.  So they are "good enough" for their purpose.  If the car ends up not stopping at a junction, or not slowing down enough for a corner, it's not the brakes fault, it's the drivers.  Doesn't matter what brakes / suspension a car has got, it should always be driven within its limits regardless.  The limits change with bigger brakes or better suspension, but that doesn't stop the fact it should still be driven appropriately.

The OP has a GTI, no mention of ED30, so he is only looking at slightly more power (15-25 bhp) than a standard R32 when stage 2/2+.  So R32 set-up would work fine.  But standard set-up with good pads would also work well enough.

+1

Brakes are sized appropriately for the car's weight, performance and intended use.  The R32 got bigger brakes because it's heavier and likely to be driven more aggressively than a GTI.  Similarly, the Bentley Continental GT got 420mm brakes not because they look cool, but because it weighs 2.5 tons and can do 200mph. 

The GTI only weighs, what, 1350kg?  So brake fade isn't as much of an issue as it is on the R32 and Bentley.

A simple test for braking power is to pull an ABS sensor and stand on the brake pedal at 70mph.  If the brakes over come the tyres grip and they lock up, they are powerful enough for that application, the end.  I can easily get my standard brakes to kick the ABS in, so to me it suggests the brakes are more than up to the job.

Another good test is to fit the brakes from a 991 GT3 RS onto a Golf, and then put the Golf against a 911 GT3 RS in a 150 - 0 braking test.  They're within 60-70kg of each other, so a good test.   Which would have the shorter stopping distance?  :smiley:

My point is, 911 brakes on a Golf doesn't = 911 stopping power.  It just changes the pedal feel.  Folk can choose to stand on the pedal harder with standard brakes, or fit bigger brakes and get the same from less pedal effort.  Option 1 seems far cheaper to me.   

If brake fade was a regular occurrence for me, absolutely I'd upgrade them, but that only happens very rarely when I drive like an idiot.  As bizarre as it must sound to a lot of people, I do find the standard brakes to be very good.  Maybe mine are just working properly and other people are using cheap pads / discs or something, or their rear calipers are seized up?


2007 ED30 | 2009 TDI 140 | 2016 BMW 330D

Offline chigmuss

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Re: What should I do before a Remap
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2017, 05:01:23 pm »
i kinda agree Pudding, you're right, I just believe ed30 were scrimped on in the braking dept by VW and if you start upping the power, it finds their limits sooner.

I didn't realise the op was on about a regular gti but it's just nice to have a bit more under the middle pedal as well as the right one. Lots of folk bought a gti to drive it just as spirited as an R32, and there's a whole thread of debate on which you'd go for out those 2 models also.


Offline pudding

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Re: What should I do before a Remap
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2017, 03:02:09 pm »
That's what VAG/BMW do and have always done!  M3/5 brakes up until the recent ones were crap as well!   Well, not in terms of outright stopping power, but just a rubbish pedal.   Porsche have always had good brakes, but the 993 and 996 need a heavy shove on the middle pedal.

The initial bite and pedal feel of the standard GTI is pretty good imo, but it can turn to fade when driving fast.  Same with the R32 when I owned them.  I like powerful brakes like the next man, but at the moment I can't be bothered with the cost, the faff of spacers / different wheels, crazy prices for GOOD pads and discs and brake squeal etc etc.   You'll feel the same when you get older  :wink: :grin:



2007 ED30 | 2009 TDI 140 | 2016 BMW 330D