Calling all Xenon / HID experts!

[AJP]

I recently fitted a pair of used Depo projectors, with HIDs. All seems fine, although I've got a few things I need to work out...

One thing I'm not sure about is how much more light they should put on the road than standard halogens. It seems that although they look bright from outside the car, when driving they don't really light up the road.

So, a couple of possibilities:

The bulbs are of a temperature that creates less light - I've read that both too high a temperature, and too low a temperature can cause this, and there's therefore a sweet spot, maybe around 5000k? I'm not sure what bulbs are in there.

The other thing to investigate is alignment. I know the Depos apparently have manual adjustment - how does this work?

To confuse matters, I'm 99% sure that my car came with OEM Xenons from the factory. There was a fault code relating (IIRC) to the Xenon adjusters popping up in the past but I'd always ignored this, as until I fitted the Depos the car was on normal halogens and I didn't deem it applicable or an issue. But of course now I'm on Depos with HIDs I'm wondering if it's something I need to look into.

One thing worth mentioning is that when we fitted the Depos and plugged the loom in to them, you could hear a motor whir for a second or two, with each headlight. Was this the OEM Xenon adjustment kicking in and 'trying' to adjust the Depos? I'm hoping there's someone out there with experience of fitting Depos to a car that used to have OEM Xenons. I've a feeling this might be quite a rare situation so therefore it could be difficult to troubleshoot!

I had the coding set to Bi Xenons without shutters as per the usual regime.

I also have the feature (whatever it's called) where if you unlock the car in the dark the lights come on. I think I've read that you should disable this feature with Xenons/HIDs as it can burn something out? If that's the case I'll get that sorted ASAP.

Bit of a long post, so apologies for that, but I've got zero experience of Xenons or HIDs so I could really do with a bit of advice.

Thanks in advance :)

Edit: One more thing I forgot to mention - the full/undipped bulbs appear to be normal halogen. Is this right?

[99hagued]

Might be worth going to a mot garage and get them to set them up on there beam tester, might be set too low. I got hella projector headlights from Germany and fitted hid kit, my bulbs are 6000k and there spot on.

[lukemk5gti]

If your car came with xenons it would have an automatic adjuster in the passenger wheel well 100% unless it was cracked or removed. It's a lever arm that connects to the wishbone. Out of interest you should check that.

Does your car have headlight washers? @mkmg76 mentioned before that xenons have to come with them as standard due to glare.

The full headlights are normal halogen on xenon setups yes. You can opt for a white light but realistically there's no need.

Last time I manually aligned a set of lights on a golf, I had to do it by hand jiggling the bulb until I found the sweet spot. No screws or anything which was surprising as a big pothole could knock them back out.

[AJP]

Cheers lads.

Yes, it has headlight washers. I'll have a look for the adjuster.

There's a place quite local to me that apparently does a bit with HIDs etc, so I'll probably call in soon, as well as going to my tester to see if the beam is legal/correct.

[pudding]

As above, check you have the yaw sensor attached to the nearside wishbone.  The headlights won't self level without it.   It could be what the error relates to and the lights could just be pointing at the ground, hence the poor visibility.

[AJP]

As above, check you have the yaw sensor attached to the nearside wishbone.  The headlights won't self level without it.   It could be what the error relates to and the lights could just be pointing at the ground, hence the poor visibility.

Would the OEM sensor recognise and level a pair of non-OEM Depos though...? That's what I'm not sure about.

[willni]

To be honest I'm near certain with this, it's the actual lense in the headlight projector that is limiting the light output, in replicas like depo they generally have a max output of 2000-3000 (forget the value) this is to that you don't require headlight washers as is the case in the EU.

Therefore regardless if you have HID or halogens in them you won't get any better lighting on the road, because of the lense. An auto-electrician told me this with a previous set of xenon copies I had different car though.

The motor you heard in the headlights when you switched them on would be the headlight height adjuster, normally found on the headlight switch this just sets them both to the same height and isn't auto leveling.

Full beam beam on xenons opens the shutter on the lense to allow the full light to pass through the lense of the light. Normally on dipped beam there is a shutter have reduces this output by 50% (at least is the case for genuine xenons) as well as the halogen bulb in the reflector to help light up the upper part of the area infront instead of just the ground.

Hope this helps.

[AJP]

To be honest I'm near certain with this, it's the actual lense in the headlight projector that is limiting the light output, in replicas like depo they generally have a max output of 2000-3000 (forget the value) this is to that you don't require headlight washers as is the case in the EU.

Therefore regardless if you have HID or halogens in them you won't get any better lighting on the road, because of the lense. An auto-electrician told me this with a previous set of xenon copies I had different car though.

The motor you heard in the headlights when you switched them on would be the headlight height adjuster, normally found on the headlight switch this just sets them both to the same height and isn't auto leveling.

Full beam beam on xenons opens the shutter on the lense to allow the full light to pass through the lense of the light. Normally on dipped beam there is a shutter have reduces this output by 50% (at least is the case for genuine xenons) as well as the halogen bulb in the reflector to help light up the upper part of the area infront instead of just the ground.

Hope this helps.

Great info mate, appreciate that. Definitely answered a few questions.

I think the best I can do is pick a bulb that emits the most suitable light (they are a bit 'blue' for me if I'm honest), make sure they're properly aligned, and then do a bit of driving to see how I find them.

Interesting what you say about the lense on aftermarket units. That would explain things to a certain extent.

When all's said and done, they were a bargain, so if I find they're not quite to my taste it's really no biggie. At the very least I'm learning a bit more and these kind of threads get the info out for the rest of the forum.

[willni]

To be honest I'm near certain with this, it's the actual lense in the headlight projector that is limiting the light output, in replicas like depo they generally have a max output of 2000-3000 (forget the value) this is to that you don't require headlight washers as is the case in the EU.

Therefore regardless if you have HID or halogens in them you won't get any better lighting on the road, because of the lense. An auto-electrician told me this with a previous set of xenon copies I had different car though.

The motor you heard in the headlights when you switched them on would be the headlight height adjuster, normally found on the headlight switch this just sets them both to the same height and isn't auto leveling.

Full beam beam on xenons opens the shutter on the lense to allow the full light to pass through the lense of the light. Normally on dipped beam there is a shutter have reduces this output by 50% (at least is the case for genuine xenons) as well as the halogen bulb in the reflector to help light up the upper part of the area infront instead of just the ground.

Hope this helps.

Great info mate, appreciate that. Definitely answered a few questions.

I think the best I can do is pick a bulb that emits the most suitable light (they are a bit 'blue' for me if I'm honest), make sure they're properly aligned, and then do a bit of driving to see how I find them.

Interesting what you say about the lense on aftermarket units. That would explain things to a certain extent.

When all's said and done, they were a bargain, so if I find they're not quite to my taste it's really no biggie. At the very least I'm learning a bit more and these kind of threads get the info out for the rest of the forum.

As long as you learn something new its not money wasted, it's the reason why I'm doing a full xenon retrofit instead of copies which would be easier. Plus my brother has genuines and they light up the road in the middle of the day they're that bright hence what I'm going for lol


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[AJP]

To be honest I'm near certain with this, it's the actual lense in the headlight projector that is limiting the light output, in replicas like depo they generally have a max output of 2000-3000 (forget the value) this is to that you don't require headlight washers as is the case in the EU.

Therefore regardless if you have HID or halogens in them you won't get any better lighting on the road, because of the lense. An auto-electrician told me this with a previous set of xenon copies I had different car though.

The motor you heard in the headlights when you switched them on would be the headlight height adjuster, normally found on the headlight switch this just sets them both to the same height and isn't auto leveling.

Full beam beam on xenons opens the shutter on the lense to allow the full light to pass through the lense of the light. Normally on dipped beam there is a shutter have reduces this output by 50% (at least is the case for genuine xenons) as well as the halogen bulb in the reflector to help light up the upper part of the area infront instead of just the ground.

Hope this helps.

Great info mate, appreciate that. Definitely answered a few questions.

I think the best I can do is pick a bulb that emits the most suitable light (they are a bit 'blue' for me if I'm honest), make sure they're properly aligned, and then do a bit of driving to see how I find them.

Interesting what you say about the lense on aftermarket units. That would explain things to a certain extent.

When all's said and done, they were a bargain, so if I find they're not quite to my taste it's really no biggie. At the very least I'm learning a bit more and these kind of threads get the info out for the rest of the forum.

As long as you learn something new its not money wasted, it's the reason why I'm doing a full xenon retrofit instead of copies which would be easier. Plus my brother has genuines and they light up the road in the middle of the day they're that bright hence what I'm going for lol


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Hmmm.. to be honest that's what I was expecting from this setup. I guess there's a reason the OEM kit is a few quid more. But yeah, no harm done. I have a feeling I'll be on the hunt for some OEM Xenons at some point, but there's that ever-expanding list of other sh*t at the same time!

I'm sure there are a few guides already out there, but feel free to stick a thread up if you get a chance. I'll be interested to read up on the install.

[willni]

To be honest I'm near certain with this, it's the actual lense in the headlight projector that is limiting the light output, in replicas like depo they generally have a max output of 2000-3000 (forget the value) this is to that you don't require headlight washers as is the case in the EU.

Therefore regardless if you have HID or halogens in them you won't get any better lighting on the road, because of the lense. An auto-electrician told me this with a previous set of xenon copies I had different car though.

The motor you heard in the headlights when you switched them on would be the headlight height adjuster, normally found on the headlight switch this just sets them both to the same height and isn't auto leveling.

Full beam beam on xenons opens the shutter on the lense to allow the full light to pass through the lense of the light. Normally on dipped beam there is a shutter have reduces this output by 50% (at least is the case for genuine xenons) as well as the halogen bulb in the reflector to help light up the upper part of the area infront instead of just the ground.

Hope this helps.

Great info mate, appreciate that. Definitely answered a few questions.

I think the best I can do is pick a bulb that emits the most suitable light (they are a bit 'blue' for me if I'm honest), make sure they're properly aligned, and then do a bit of driving to see how I find them.

Interesting what you say about the lense on aftermarket units. That would explain things to a certain extent.

When all's said and done, they were a bargain, so if I find they're not quite to my taste it's really no biggie. At the very least I'm learning a bit more and these kind of threads get the info out for the rest of the forum.

As long as you learn something new its not money wasted, it's the reason why I'm doing a full xenon retrofit instead of copies which would be easier. Plus my brother has genuines and they light up the road in the middle of the day they're that bright hence what I'm going for lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hmmm.. to be honest that's what I was expecting from this setup. I guess there's a reason the OEM kit is a few quid more. But yeah, no harm done. I have a feeling I'll be on the hunt for some OEM Xenons at some point, but there's that ever-expanding list of other sh*t at the same time!

I'm sure there are a few guides already out there, but feel free to stick a thread up if you get a chance. I'll be interested to read up on the install.

From what I gather it should be simple,

Parts (from harvesting)
Xenons, auto level adjuster brackets + control module and headlight washer system.

Wiring harnesses (kufatec)
Xenon,
Auto level
Headlight washer

And then it's just a matter of whacking it on, total cost estimate breakdown

Xenons £400-500
Auto level. £100-200
Headlight washer £200

Unfortunately i opted for a bcs catback exhaust instead of continuing on with the part gathering for it


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[AJP]

To be honest I'm near certain with this, it's the actual lense in the headlight projector that is limiting the light output, in replicas like depo they generally have a max output of 2000-3000 (forget the value) this is to that you don't require headlight washers as is the case in the EU.

Therefore regardless if you have HID or halogens in them you won't get any better lighting on the road, because of the lense. An auto-electrician told me this with a previous set of xenon copies I had different car though.

The motor you heard in the headlights when you switched them on would be the headlight height adjuster, normally found on the headlight switch this just sets them both to the same height and isn't auto leveling.

Full beam beam on xenons opens the shutter on the lense to allow the full light to pass through the lense of the light. Normally on dipped beam there is a shutter have reduces this output by 50% (at least is the case for genuine xenons) as well as the halogen bulb in the reflector to help light up the upper part of the area infront instead of just the ground.

Hope this helps.

Great info mate, appreciate that. Definitely answered a few questions.

I think the best I can do is pick a bulb that emits the most suitable light (they are a bit 'blue' for me if I'm honest), make sure they're properly aligned, and then do a bit of driving to see how I find them.

Interesting what you say about the lense on aftermarket units. That would explain things to a certain extent.

When all's said and done, they were a bargain, so if I find they're not quite to my taste it's really no biggie. At the very least I'm learning a bit more and these kind of threads get the info out for the rest of the forum.

As long as you learn something new its not money wasted, it's the reason why I'm doing a full xenon retrofit instead of copies which would be easier. Plus my brother has genuines and they light up the road in the middle of the day they're that bright hence what I'm going for lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hmmm.. to be honest that's what I was expecting from this setup. I guess there's a reason the OEM kit is a few quid more. But yeah, no harm done. I have a feeling I'll be on the hunt for some OEM Xenons at some point, but there's that ever-expanding list of other sh*t at the same time!

I'm sure there are a few guides already out there, but feel free to stick a thread up if you get a chance. I'll be interested to read up on the install.

From what I gather it should be simple,

Parts (from harvesting)
Xenons, auto level adjuster brackets + control module and headlight washer system.

Wiring harnesses (kufatec)
Xenon,
Auto level
Headlight washer

And then it's just a matter of whacking it on, total cost estimate breakdown

Xenons £400-500
Auto level. £100-200
Headlight washer £200

Unfortunately i opted for a bcs catback exhaust instead of continuing on with the part gathering for it


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Well if I'm right in thinking my car came from the factory with xenons (which were then harvested at some point in its life) I've got a bit of a head start. The washers are there, and I'll check the auto adjustment bits are where they should be at some point. So really it's just the headlights and looms.

I also did the BCS thing early on..

[willni]

Well if I'm right in thinking my car came from the factory with xenons (which were then harvested at some point in its life) I've got a bit of a head start. The washers are there, and I'll check the auto adjustment bits are where they should be at some point. So really it's just the headlights and looms.

I also did the BCS thing early on..

Lol gotta sort the exhaust early on , and then if that's the case it'd just go the extra distance and put the genuine ones in (don't really need auto level you can get away with it on mot) and the loom for xenons is £50 and the headlights, plus you can always sell your copies to a youth and make some profit from them



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[pudding]

Lol, my genuines with Xenarc night breaker 'unlimited' D2S bulbs don't light the road up in daylight, well, not when it's sunny at least!

Don't forget these bad boys if the lenses are poop - https://www.theretrofitsource.com/all-products/zkw-r-47812.html

Lights are boring AJP, put the money towards your wide arch conversion instead 

[Ripstop]

Apologies if this is a little off topic but the choice of bulb temperature will determine how "cool"  you look or how bright the road lights up in the day and at night. I also want to bore the pants off pudding  In fact this is a warning for all ... this is a little boring.... 

HID colour temperatures of 4300k emit the most light (lumens) in the visible spectrum that you see every day with your own eyes. Hence you can generally see them at night and on darker days like cloudy or rainy days.  On sunny days they effectively disappear as all light is mixed and is basically daylight and you only see the bulb really and not the projected light. They are meant to be the equivalent of daylight (full visible spectrum) and hence they output the most lumens.

As you move towards the higher colour temperatures 5500k and 6000k you shift the light spectrum towards the UV end of the light scale ie more "blue" and you reduce the visible light that you could see. So although they appear bright they are not delivering the most effective amount of visible light (less lumens) and hence are not as good for general driving.

Now the real science begins... Bluer light does however have a higher energy (shorter wavelength) and can penetrate further through mediums like water or air so they appear to see farther. Its a little silly really... they have more energy but less lumens. or light power.

See this http://www.5gcamaro.com/hid-color-chart/

HID's are also more efficient at producing light than halogen and produce more lumens per watt and that's why they are brighter and use less power than halogens.

With age the efficiency of HID bulbs does decrease by 5% or 10% due to electrode and metal salt degradation (used to provide the actual light as they are ionised in the bulb) and as an example you will see a better light output from a new Xenarc night breaker than the original but they are still operating at the daylight temperature of 4350k so give maximum lumens.

In the end I will always use HID's with a colour temperature of 4300k to maybe 5500k but no more. Beware claims of xx% brighter.... 6000k bulbs are not more powerful in terms of lumens than the standard bulb. They are just shifting it to the blue end of the spectrum.

Are you all asleep now?

Cheers
Rip