EPC Light and a p0221 for good luck (SOLVED)

[phantom1004]

Yeap, has been happening on and off randomly since i brought the car, saw a lot of posts about the new wiring loom so i thought i would order it, but before i did i wanted to see what i was getting myself into, and behold an already installed Replacement wiring harness, i checked all of the connections (soldered o.O) and checked with a multi meter and its perfect,i neatened it up a bit and wrapped it again but alas the problem persists, if its still happening after the wiring harness install what on earth could it be!

Many thanks in advanced

06 MKV GTI

[phantom1004]

Update, it only used to happen when driving and at no set speed, drove to work fine but at lunch when i started the car it gave epc, restarting the car cleared it after 500m but it happened again when leaving work when i start the car, i'd love to hear your ideas as im dreadding taking it to a dealer... my pockets arnt THAT deep

[doylebros]

This is worth a read
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16605/P0221/000545

And a watch

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fdLA5pXUkk4

[phantom1004]

Funny you should mention them 2 things, hooked into vagcom i tracked a graph for a 2 hour drive and no funny buisness, however no epc light, i recently redid a TBA and still no change, planning on taking out the throttle body this weekend and see if an inspection will shine a light aka oil/moisture ect, only other thing i can think of is checking the connectors going into the ECU and making sure they are nice and shiney

Edit: now i think about it the first times i got the error i also got a dv valve fault code that i replaced a while ago, was strange both things would trigger at the same milage marker

[doylebros]

One of those codes was possibly an old code.
Start from scratch and do all the simple things well and you'll track it down.

[phantom1004]

when i did the DV replacement i cleared the codes, and the same day was when i checked out the cables of the Throttle Body Harness, and because of that i did a TBA because vag com said it needed to be done, clean slate, auto scan throws up some issues with the doors apparently not having the right coding (not really a problem) and radio (my aftermarket stereo doesnt have a can-bus so i expect that) and when the EPC light comes on i get the p0221 and something in the ABS system saying theres a DCT in the engine (01)

With that said im gonna head to the car NOW and run an auto scan and attach it to this post when i have it in hand

Ok saving all of the No Errors and such here is EVERY issue i have with the car

2 Faults Found:
000537 - Maximum Engine Speed Exceeded: Engine Warranty VOID! 
               P0219 - 001 - -) - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 255732 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 15:20:15
 
             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 7194 /min
                    Load: 88.2 %
                    Speed: 59.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 53.0°C
                    Temperature: 21.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.097 V
 
000545 - Angle Sensor 2 for Throttle (G188)
               P0221 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 4
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 255734 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 15:38:28
 
             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1444 /min
                    Load: 43.9 %
                    Speed: 2.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 42.0°C
                    Temperature: 31.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.224 V
 
Readiness: 0000 0000


-----------------  The first one is new, gonna look it up after, the second one is the one in question --------------------------

Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 02E-927-770.clb
   Part No SW: 02E 300 043 C    HW: 02E 927 770 AE
   Component: GSG DSG         070 1111 
   Revision: 04507000    Serial number: 00000605260071
   Coding: 0000020
   Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
   VCID: 1472B438D2731927EF2-8040
 
1 Fault Found:
17252 - Transmission Fluid Pressure Adaptation at Limit
            P0868 - 001 -
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 255
                    Reset counter: 2
                    Mileage: 255673 km
                    Time Indication: 0


----------------------- This one is a strange one, doesnt cause me issues so i dont touch it ------------------------------------

Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK60-F.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 AC    HW: 1K0 907 379 AC
   Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0101 
   Revision: 00H11001   
   Coding: 0004738
   Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
   VCID: 73B0D7A4F7BDBE1F568-8026
 
1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
            013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent


---------------- Triggers when P0221 --------------------------


Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 AE  Labels: 1K0-955-559-AF.CLB
   Component: RLS     140606 014  1201 
   Coding: 00208933
   Shop #: WSC 00028 
 
1 Fault Found:
00061 - Footwell Lights
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101100
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 120
                    Reset counter: 43
                    Mileage: 254404 km
                    Time Indication: 0


--------- Previous owner put LED bulbs in the foot well sockets, havent had the time to care or swap them out ------------------


Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels:. 1K0-907-530-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 H    HW: 1K0 907 951
   Component: J533__Gateway   H12 0150 
   Revision:   H12       Serial number: 3100106610872C
   Coding: 3F3F034007000002
   Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
   VCID: 2C020CD86A03A1E7D72-8078
 
2 Faults Found:
01305 - Databus for Infotainment
            004 - No Signal/Communication
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100100
                    Fault Priority: 1
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 20
                    Mileage: 253991 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 18:01:27
 
01304 - Radio
            004 - No Signal/Communication
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 20
                    Mileage: 253991 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 18:01:31


-------- Top one is a question mark for me, Second one is expected ---------------------



thats kinda fresh, maybe 300KM on the clock since the last purge

[phantom1004]

Update time, after removing the throttle body (god for bid i have to remove it again!) i see nothing wrong, an EXTREMELY thin layer of soot or carbon near the valve, inside all of the contacts (all 2 of them) seem fine, so before i take the leap and buy a new throttle body i want to ask a few questions


1. Is there any diagrams or tables where i can test the pins with a multimeter to see if anything is at fault?
2. is there a chance that the damage is in fact in the wire, but further up the loom?
3. it might be a considence but i noticed on the day that it happened A LOT it was on a day with heavy rain, is there a chance that it might play a factor in this and possibly redirect my attention somewhere else?
4. kind of like question 1, is there any way i can test resistance or something between the cables going into the throttle body and where they terminate (cant find any info on where THAT is) and be able to see if the cable is a problem?

I know i havent been on this forum long and to be frank thats wholey because i havent owned a GTI for that long, and honestly i'd rather question people from a forum with experience then get charged to high heaven from a dealer, just for the problem to persist.

With that said, as always many thanks in advanced to any/all that read this/can help with this

Last second EDIT, i noticed the production date on the throttle body is dated AFTER the car was registered for the first time, meaning its been replaced before but no evidence in the FULL service history (not so full me thinks )

[pudding]

There are 2 issues relating to the throttle body.

1) The harness, and VW had a TSB about it some years ago.  A replacement harness was the solution.

2) The throttle body itself.  The original TB was made by VDO and notorious for position sensor failure.  It was later changed to Continental part with a Q suffix.  I have the later Q body on my Edition 30 with a manufacture date of 2012, so it's not unusual to see MK5s with that and other parts newer than the vehicle assembly date.

The over rev code is an interesting one on a DSG car.  Didn't think it would allow a down shift which would mechanically over rev the motor.   Is it remapped?

[phantom1004]

1. The harness has its "repair" aka cables cut and soldered to the yellow cables with a new connector, which ive ruled out because the connector seems fine (still too tight for my liking so it might be worth while me extending it myself more)

2. Throttle body was made 15.10.07 by indeed VDO, i did some reading and like you said they have started to adopt the Q suffix, just like the DV valve they revised.

Remapped im still unsure, it seems like it had an aftermarket air intake that was then removed in place for stock when the previous owner sold the car (clips broken missing screws lost ect), i have been tempted to see someone affiliated with VAG so i can test it as i dont think i can test if its been remapped via VCDS.

With what you just said about VDO and being known with position sensor failure its pushed me HARD towards replacing it as the only logical thing i can think if it wasn't the throttle body is if the cable had came frayed or something BEFORE the harness replacement (extention)

Throttle Body Code 06F 133 062 G

[pudding]

Yeah VW's replacement 'harness' is just a bunch of wires you have to splice in yourself, but sounds like that's already been a customer for that then.

Have a look at the flash counter in engine module with VCDS.  It's the button called "Advanced I.D".   If "successful flashes" is more than 1, it's not standard.  It's unusual to find a GTI that hasn't been messed with to be honest.

I have an original VDO TB sitting around which worked fine, which you are welcome to try FOC to see if it shifts the error.   If it does, you can either keep it, or upgrade to the Continental TB.

[phantom1004]

Well i swore to the misses that i would not play with my car anymore today, so i will have to check the flash tomorrow,  and dont worry about the throttle body you have, i'm not actually living in the UK anymore because brexit, just trying to track down the Continental TB but all i get is VDO, many MANY thanks to you sir, ill update this thread when i have either something good OR bad to say

[pudding]

Ha, I don't blame you!  I've been considering getting out of this dogschitt country for years now.   Search for "VDO Continental".  I think both brands are on the plastic motor cover.  The old one is "VDO Siemens".  Good luck!

[phantom1004]

Contacted a breakers and they said sure, took my money then 2 hours later they dont have it heres a refund, so im going to a self service place and a list of ALL cars that have that exact contintal throttle body! Im fixing the damned thing today even if it kolls me

[phantom1004]

Just an update for the forum as i sent a few pms back and forth to pudding, the problem was with the VDO Siemens TB, brought a used cont TB and runs like a dream, i do suggest you do the long disassembly if your going to replace a TB (fan removal and air/turbo piping) as it made access a dream with only car jacks.

[GTION]

Hi guys,

Sorry to jump in on this but this is a really great thread and I think I’m experiencing this exact issue..

I recently purchased a very well maintained ‘06 GTI DSG, however, it has randomly gone into limp mode 3 times so far with EPC + ESP warning lights illuminated on the dashbord.

It once happened whilst driving slowly around a car park so I quickly grabbed a generic OBD scanner which I had in the glovebox, fault code p0221 was logged as pending (see pic below)

Would this be the same issue you experienced and could it be anything other than the throttle body?

I would be quite happy knowimg the solution is definitely to upgrade the TB to a “continental” version... just wanted to get your thoughts before I go shopping for a new TB :)

Thanks