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Author Topic: Driving standards falling or am I just being grumpy?  (Read 4979 times)

Offline Tazocin

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Driving standards falling or am I just being grumpy?
« on: November 28, 2017, 05:04:44 pm »
Bit of a rant post here I'mm afraid but here goes...

Are people getting worse at driving? As far as I know the test hasn't been made easier or anything and there have been no major changes to road rules/car handling except improvements and yet I feel like people are worse and worse at driving!

Firstly, there are more cars on the road. Its a statistical fact and its obvious. I've been driving nearly 20 years and the last few have noticeably been much busier than my first years and this may account for some of the problem.

However, it doesnt explain it all. I live near south Manchester and traffic is pretty bad. We have had a series of new roads/roadworks/SMART (I know  :sick:) motorway development ongoing for years now but people just seem unable to drive:

They cant drive at the speed limit. I like going fast, I've paid for it in the past with fines and have learnt my lesson (except when on a private road) but seriously people cant drive at the speed limit. A 40mph road is often driven at 30 or even 20 mph with constant heavy braking for things such as corners half a mile away, cars coming the other way or just straight bits of road. This really annoys me because the road has been deemed safe at this speed so why cant people achieve it? I also appreciate road/weather conditions play a part etc but it seems increasingly bad and really slows things down.

People changing lanes. We all make mistakes but what is this new trend of just stopping where you are or worse, pulling across lanes blocking them whilst you wait to get into the feeder lane you missed? Accept your mistake and carry on, it will be easy to rectify later, don't a) hold the rest of us up or put us at risk of an accident because you couldn't follow the sat nav or werent paying attention. Also in this group are people who stop in the middle lane of the motorway to try and enter the busy Left lane for a turn off because they didnt want to queue (anyone who has visited the trafford centre knows what I mean). Who feels it is sensible to be stopped dead in the middle lane of a 70mph road??

Matching speeds - pull onto the motorway at 60-70 mph, its much easier and safer than crawling on at 30-40 and forcing all traffic on the motorway to switch lanes or stand on the brakes. Also in this little section can I include the drivers who feel they have right of way joining the motorway? they dont.   :slap:

Mobile phones - had to be mentioned, we all know the busy lights that only lets 5 cars through except someone was on their phone so no cars got through that time. Not as bad as it was due to the recent police efforts but still and issue

Also, roads in general. Subcontractors have ripped them up so many times some fall to pieces merely weeks after they are repaired. I see that budget increases are way behindf needs and so can only expect further deterioration and damage to my vehicle just on my commute to work.


OK, rant over. Am I being unreasonable? I appreciate not everyone loves driving or even feels happy doing it and I try my absolute best to not tailgate or pressure someone who is clearly not confident on the road but surely there is a minimum level of competence we should aspire to and it doesnt seem to be met as much anymore resulting in the roads feeling much more dangerous in spite of far slower speeds. Anyone else feel the same?

Offline delob

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Re: Driving standards falling or am I just being grumpy?
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2017, 05:57:51 pm »
I think part of the problem might be all of the road safety campaigns. Constantly banging on about how speed kills and not focusing on the standard of driving. It seems that nowadays people think that driving slow equates to good driving. Things like moving left in the motorway and correct indicators on a roundabout have gone out the window. I know excessive speed kills but they need to focus on driving standards rather than constantly banging on about speed.

But then where would they generate all the lost revenue from speed cameras


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willni

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Re: Driving standards falling or am I just being grumpy?
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2017, 06:41:04 pm »
Yep there's a lot of bad drivers, one doing 30mph on a 70mph road the other day when going home. People are scared of speed because of tv ad campaigns etc but don't realise for the most party they're the worst instance, 90% of accidents I'd say are just minor damage with no injuries or an instance of crash for cash. We could probably stop the tv campaigns now we've got to thin out the numbers...

But yeah people don't like to think of others on the road equally bad for traffic is the tailgaters in traffic, at merging parts staying so close to the car in front they're breaking etc, which in reality is actually creating traffic vs keeping the proper distance and gap.

You can't really blame subcontractors either they're there to do their job, you'd probably be more cross going home and your sewer backlogging into the bathroom or having no water, electricity or gas. The budgets for these works aren't designed to repair to perfect standard, they're repair the problem underneath with a quick cheap patch on top.

As for speed cameras if all of those fines etc went on A) traffic branch police B) road maintenance, then you wouldn't really mind as much as the roads would at least be maintained but there's no system in place for road maintenance generation really. Road Tax in the literally sense would be a good idea but since it's emissions tax (ved) it's going to someone's benefits or worse school funded drama and music!  :signLOL:


Offline pudding

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Re: Driving standards falling or am I just being grumpy?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2017, 10:51:49 am »
It's exactly the same where I live in East Anglia and all the way down through London to the entire South East.

There are many factors involved, but the key ones are, imo....

1) Over population.
2) Ageing population living longer.
3) Practically zero new road development, or widening of existing trunk roads.
4) Poor eye sight.
5) Road craft on the decline.
6) Government scaremongering and revenue gathering punishments.
7) Selfishness.

Problems 1 - 3 generates what I like to call the rat syndrome.  People in vast numbers fighting for the same road space behave like rats.  Hostility, resentment, trampling over each other and everyone's journey is more important than yours.

4) is a growing concern.  Bad eye sight, particularly in the middle aged and older brackets, is left up to them to sort, but the DVLA should really be enforcing mandatory eye tests every 10 years, or hang your keys up quite frankly.   The amount of people I see on unlit back roads weaving all over the place at a heady 20mph, and stabbing the brakes every time headlights come towards them, is unreal.  But because I can actually see, and over take them, naturally all the attitude comes out and they honk and flash me.  Erm, f'ck you blind twat.  You think I'm going to sit behind you at 20mph on a 60 limit road?  These people are an absolute menace and a danger to society.

5) Jesus, where do we even begin.  Shoddy lane discipline, selfish lane hogging, selfish speed limit enforcing, creating their own gaps in traffic under the misguided belief that indicating = right of way, just stopping in the road for no reason, no indication, ridiculous tailgating, mobile phone use etc etc.
I have no idea where all this is coming from.  Probably a by product of 1 - 3, but bad driving needs harsher punishments to deter the arrogant f'cks who forget driving is a social activity and isn't their own personal road network.

6) Years and years of brow beating and fines has indeed slowed some people down, but generally just the holier than thou types who flash at people who aren't driving as slowly as they.  Again, mind ya f'ckin business and concentrate on your own driving.  If I get caught for speeding, that's my concern, not yours.

7) Part and parcel of 5 I guess.  People in general just seem to have no regard for the law or each other.  Too self absorbed in their own little space to even notice or give a schitt about anyone else.....just like rats.

How do we fix this mess?  Kill 50% of the population and get rid of all the old fcks who can't see or operate a car properly.  Done  :happy2:

Joking aside, if Trump and that Korean odd ball don't stop locking horns, that may well happen anyway!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 10:54:20 am by Pudding »


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Offline Kai96

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Re: Driving standards falling or am I just being grumpy?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2017, 02:06:20 pm »
It's exactly the same where I live in East Anglia and all the way down through London to the entire South East.

There are many factors involved, but the key ones are, imo....

1) Over population.
2) Ageing population living longer.
3) Practically zero new road development, or widening of existing trunk roads.
4) Poor eye sight.
5) Road craft on the decline.
6) Government scaremongering and revenue gathering punishments.
7) Selfishness.

Problems 1 - 3 generates what I like to call the rat syndrome.  People in vast numbers fighting for the same road space behave like rats.  Hostility, resentment, trampling over each other and everyone's journey is more important than yours.

4) is a growing concern.  Bad eye sight, particularly in the middle aged and older brackets, is left up to them to sort, but the DVLA should really be enforcing mandatory eye tests every 10 years, or hang your keys up quite frankly.   The amount of people I see on unlit back roads weaving all over the place at a heady 20mph, and stabbing the brakes every time headlights come towards them, is unreal.  But because I can actually see, and over take them, naturally all the attitude comes out and they honk and flash me.  Erm, f'ck you blind twat.  You think I'm going to sit behind you at 20mph on a 60 limit road?  These people are an absolute menace and a danger to society.

5) Jesus, where do we even begin.  Shoddy lane discipline, selfish lane hogging, selfish speed limit enforcing, creating their own gaps in traffic under the misguided belief that indicating = right of way, just stopping in the road for no reason, no indication, ridiculous tailgating, mobile phone use etc etc.
I have no idea where all this is coming from.  Probably a by product of 1 - 3, but bad driving needs harsher punishments to deter the arrogant f'cks who forget driving is a social activity and isn't their own personal road network.

6) Years and years of brow beating and fines has indeed slowed some people down, but generally just the holier than thou types who flash at people who aren't driving as slowly as they.  Again, mind ya f'ckin business and concentrate on your own driving.  If I get caught for speeding, that's my concern, not yours.

7) Part and parcel of 5 I guess.  People in general just seem to have no regard for the law or each other.  Too self absorbed in their own little space to even notice or give a schitt about anyone else.....just like rats.

How do we fix this mess?  Kill 50% of the population and get rid of all the old fcks who can't see or operate a car properly.  Done  :happy2:

Joking aside, if Trump and that Korean odd ball don't stop locking horns, that may well happen anyway!
This one gave me a good laugh

Offline garrardrj

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Re: Driving standards falling or am I just being grumpy?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2017, 08:16:06 pm »
Rarely nowadays do the Police have time to pull up people for crap driving, that and the fact that you hardly see them is another reason for falling standards. Also many people people think they can do what they want. Its not only driving standards that are falling.
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Offline pudding

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Re: Driving standards falling or am I just being grumpy?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2017, 10:56:12 am »
It's just draining.  I used to love the daily commute - who wouldn't in a fun car like a modded GTI? - but now I can't wait to get out of the car and get indoors.   Every frickin day it's zombies doing 40-50mph on dual carriageways and driving like pricks.


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Offline Tazocin

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Re: Driving standards falling or am I just being grumpy?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2017, 08:18:14 pm »
It's just draining.  I used to love the daily commute - who wouldn't in a fun car like a modded GTI? - but now I can't wait to get out of the car and get indoors.   Every frickin day it's zombies doing 40-50mph on dual carriageways and driving like pricks.

This more than anything I think sums it up for me. Driving home is painful, 12 miles takes 90 minutes or more, its miserable. Time to find a remote cave to live in in scotland somewhere I think with some nice twisty roads upto it :D

Offline Horatio

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Re: Driving standards falling or am I just being grumpy?
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2017, 03:06:48 pm »
People are feckless when it comes to driving. I worked on the M25 widening, I would never work on a highways project again. A disproportionate amount of women drivers would often drive into the work sites AT SPEED. At least one guy was squashed on site by a tipper lorry on site...because he was using a phone and not in a designated phone area. There were some horrific accidents in the roadworks....because people are fkn idiots  :driver: :signLOL:
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Offline gulfstream11

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Re: Driving standards falling or am I just being grumpy?
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2017, 06:33:38 am »
Had to go into work this morning, the route takes you thru country roads no lighting. Nearly everybody going the other way had foglights on and full beam. None of them had to courtesy to dip until I passed. And whats the deal with foglights. Is it still illegal? I know you can code in the fogs as DRL etc but surely for most its an actual movement to switch them on. WHY?????  Damn I'm getting old.   :thinking:

willni

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Re: Driving standards falling or am I just being grumpy?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2017, 02:25:23 pm »
Had to go into work this morning, the route takes you thru country roads no lighting. Nearly everybody going the other way had foglights on and full beam. None of them had to courtesy to dip until I passed. And whats the deal with foglights. Is it still illegal? I know you can code in the fogs as DRL etc but surely for most its an actual movement to switch them on. WHY?????  Damn I'm getting old.   :thinking:

Some can look full beam etc just from the angles and slopes of the road, it's very annoying usually I just full beam them back until they switch off. As for fogs if they came with DRL fogs from factory they're about 25-50% strength of full fog and don't blind you in the slightest, think people put them on if they can't see or think they look good.

Offline stealthwolf

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Re: Driving standards falling or am I just being grumpy?
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2017, 09:32:33 am »
Are people getting worse at driving?
I think as there are more cars on the roads, there will be proportionally more muppets who can't drive properly.

However, it doesnt explain it all. I live near south Manchester and traffic is pretty bad. We have had a series of new roads/roadworks/SMART (I know  :sick:) motorway development ongoing for years now but people just seem unable to drive
I find "smart" motorways annoying but I stick rigidly to the speed limit whereas others seem to ignore it. I've encountered a few people online who took the overhead gantries with the speed limit in a red circle as "advisory" speed limits and then were upset when caught speeding. I think as there are changes happening, people need to be educated. A few months ago, I heard adverts on the radio advising drivers that if a motorway lane is closed, you must not drive in it. Took me as a surprise that people needed to be told.

They cant drive at the speed limit.
My longstanding bugbear is people who don't know what the NSL sign is for. On one route I used to travel along, there's a 40mph sign, then NSL for a few miles, then a 30mph sign. If you were unlucky, you were stuck behind a muppet doing 40mph throughout that whole route (yes even the 30mph bit) but they would flash you if you overtook because they were doing 40 and the limit on the single carriageway was 60mph.

People changing lanes.
My main pet peeve here is people not checking their blindspots, or not even considering other traffic. A few years back, I remember a van pulling out suddenly from the lefthand lane of a motorway because of a lorry ahead. They pulled out in front of a car who instinctively pulled out in front of me, rather than slow down and hit the brakes.

Matching speeds - pull onto the motorway at 60-70 mph, its much easier and safer than crawling on at 30-40 and forcing all traffic on the motorway to switch lanes or stand on the brakes. Also in this little section can I include the drivers who feel they have right of way joining the motorway? they dont.   :slap:
Agreed especially about drivers who do not realise a slip lane has a give way marking at the end - if there's no space to join, you stop and wait until it's safe to do so, rather than trying to force their way in.

Mobile phones - had to be mentioned, we all know the busy lights that only lets 5 cars through except someone was on their phone so no cars got through that time. Not as bad as it was due to the recent police efforts but still and issue
I'm always impressed people can spend £££ on the latest smartphone but can't fit a bluetooth unit for their flash car.

Also, roads in general. Subcontractors have ripped them up so many times some fall to pieces merely weeks after they are repaired. I see that budget increases are way behindf needs and so can only expect further deterioration and damage to my vehicle just on my commute to work.
I think if a company/subcontractors have ripped up a road and repaired it, and that repair is in need of repair within 24 months, it should be done free of charge by whoever ripped it up in the first place. Might concentrate minds if repairs cost twice as much.

I think part of the problem might be all of the road safety campaigns. Constantly banging on about how speed kills and not focusing on the standard of driving.
If you look at the DoT stats (for 2016), the greatest factor in accidents was Driver error or reaction at 71%. This is stuff like failing to signal, poor manoeuvre, sudden braking or swerving, or not looking properly. Exceeding the speed limit contributed to 5% of accidents. >source<


Problems 1 - 3 generates what I like to call the rat syndrome.  People in vast numbers fighting for the same road space behave like rats.  Hostility, resentment, trampling over each other and everyone's journey is more important than yours.
The infrastructure needs a massive overhaul but no one's spending any money on it.

Bad eye sight, particularly in the middle aged and older brackets, is left up to them to sort, but the DVLA should really be enforcing mandatory eye tests every 10 years, or hang your keys up quite frankly.
10 years is too far apart. Every 1-2 years would be better as eyesight can go from borderline good to borderline bad within twelve months.

5) Jesus, where do we even begin.  Shoddy lane discipline, selfish lane hogging, selfish speed limit enforcing, creating their own gaps in traffic under the misguided belief that indicating = right of way, just stopping in the road for no reason, no indication, ridiculous tailgating, mobile phone use etc etc.
I have no idea where all this is coming from.
"Defensive" driving probably isn't taught well if at all. The other skills - as my driving instructor put it - once you've passed the test, you can drive however you want (he was talking about how there are no checks or assessments after passing your test to ensure standards are maintained).

Rarely nowadays do the Police have time to pull up people for crap driving, that and the fact that you hardly see them is another reason for falling standards.
I used to think people became rubbish drivers over time, that their skills slackened. Until I realised that if there's a police car around, everyone seems to drive properly. So they can drive properly but just can't be bothered.

Also many people people think they can do what they want.
I think that covers many aspects of life, not just driving!

Had to go into work this morning, the route takes you thru country roads no lighting. Nearly everybody going the other way had foglights on and full beam. None of them had to courtesy to dip until I passed. And whats the deal with foglights. Is it still illegal? I know you can code in the fogs as DRL etc but surely for most its an actual movement to switch them on. WHY?????  Damn I'm getting old.   :thinking:
My bugbear with this is people using fullbeams and/or foglights in the lightest of mist on the road. No proper fog where visibility is so poor you have to slow to a crawl. Just a light mist, no worse than a rainfall in terms of visibility. Then they forget to turn off the fogs (or maybe they just don't bother).

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Offline grey golfster

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Re: Driving standards falling or am I just being grumpy?
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2017, 12:39:03 pm »
Love it all!   :congrats:

I was sure it wasn't just me moaning!

Offline Molesy

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Re: Driving standards falling or am I just being grumpy?
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2017, 02:26:32 pm »
I think we're all just turning into old grumpy men  :smiley:  :wink: I agree with all the above, most of it comes down to people not giving a s**t about other people, not just in driving but generally - all about me, myself and I - it's something that has become more prominent in society especially over the last 25 years years.

Molesy  :happy2:

Offline AJP

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Re: Driving standards falling or am I just being grumpy?
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2017, 04:07:57 pm »
Motorway discipline. That's the biggie. The whole point of a dual carriageway or motorway is to allow and encourage safe overtaking. Lanes 2 and 3 are there for that very reason. If you're in one of those lanes, it should be because you're overtaking. So do that, swiftly and safely, then get the f*ck back over.

Instead, we get what seems half the cars on the motorway populating lane 3 in a big queue. Lane 3 naturally slows due to sheer volume and domino effect, forcing lanes 2 and 1 to slow because undertaking is naughty, thereby defeating the whole object of a motorway - all lanes slow unnecessarily just because some tosser sits stoically in lane 3 at 72mph giving no f*cks to anyone behind him because he's in what he erroneously calls 'the fast lane' and he's observing the speed limit.

The majority of drivers on motorways are doing it all wrong, and spoiling it for the rest of us.

Monkey see, monkey do.