Quite induction

[Ant b]

Is there such thing as a quite induction kit for the gtis,
My ram air oversize is stupid loud I don’t mind the dump when you let of but it’s constantly sucking on acceleration.
Think is I like the look and I don’t really wanna go back to a cover as one I haven’t got one and two I’ve just spend money tarting the engine up.
My old 1.8t had a cone on and had a nice dump when you release but not all the time

[pudding]

I've tried the VWR and Revo intakes.  Both noisy.   I'm not a big fan of all the noise either.  I am working on some ideas.  Either boxing in the Revo cone with some automotive grade acoustic foam (water, fuel, oil and fire resistant obviously) or throwing the cone in the bin and fitting a BMC enclosed can on the end.  I've used them in the past to good effect and they are quiet.

The other problem is the pipes are made of very thin wall ally tube which resonates badly.  If the pipes were made of a thick plastic material, it would be a lot quieter.

[Tazocin]

Ive got a forge twintake and that's reputed to be quiet with its 2 enclosed canisters but you still get some flutter on letting off boost and that raspy sucking sound when you open the throttle up (once I get over 3k rpm the powervalve kicks in and I don't hear the intake at all :D). As Pudding mentioned I think all of them with the metal piping will transmit sound even with enclosed ends, especially as its right up against the firewall so doesn't have far to travel. Certainly my twintake is quieter than the open cone ones but you can still hear it.

If you're ever near manchester you're welcome to come have a listen.

[Ant b]

I’m thinking about fitting a bmc type enclosed on above the mannifold,I no it not the best as heat rises but it will still have the ram air heat shield plus it’s inclosed so should be ok,I could put it right on the end but I think it will still be loud.
Only thing is as mines 90mm atm I need some 70mm silicone joiners and if I do go above mannifold I would fit the rest of the ram air piping as a cold air feed

[golfmck1980]

Have the same problem with my ramair intake so bloody noisey gonna try and put some sound deadening under the bonnet after christmas to see if that helps

[pudding]

BMC do a couple of compact solutions, like the OTA and DIA.  Both come with 85mm OD intakes, so only a very mild drop down from the 90mm pipe. 

In was thinking of putting one of these in front of the battery to replace the cone.

Sucking in hot air from the engine bay is overplayed in the aftermarket.  It's not that big of a deal with a turbo engine since the turbo itself will heat the air to around 100 degrees C at full boost anyway.

[colesey]

Is there a way of modding the standard airbox to improve flow whilst keeping things quiet?

[pudding]

I'll have a look into that but I doubt it.  VW already did a great job of squashing a traditional plastic airbox into a pancake to sit on top of the engine.  The fact ED30s can make ~330hp with nothing more than a panel filter is a testament to their engineering.

If one is prepared to relocate the battery to the boot then all manner of quiet options are available to us, such as the beastly R32 airbox.   It's a huge bucket of cold air for the turbo to drink from.  Perhaps a little project to investigate in the summer.   There must be a reasonable size battery we can lay flat in the spare wheel well......otherwise an R32 boot floor is required......which is a bit extreme for the sake of an intake 

[pudding]

Regal seem to have taken the loofah on a stick concept one step further, with a flex coupling    Finally.  You never see that in any intake kits!

http://www.regalautosport.com/shop/IE-2-0TFSi-K03-K04-Cold-Air-Intake-for-Golf-MK5-GTI-Golf-MK6-R-Seat-Leon-Audi-A3-Audi-A3-Skoda-Octavia-VRS-all-2-0TFSi-EA113.html

Not one of them have laminar air flow corrector gauzes upstream of the MAF though.  I love how aftermarket parts people just completely omit key functions and then try to convince us they are not necessary when questioned about it.  And then 6 months later when the mounting lug has snapped off the Revo intake pipe due to the lack of a flex coupling.......silence.

[Shoduchi]

Regal seem to have taken the loofah on a stick concept one step further, with a flex coupling    Finally.  You never see that in any intake kits!

http://www.regalautosport.com/shop/IE-2-0TFSi-K03-K04-Cold-Air-Intake-for-Golf-MK5-GTI-Golf-MK6-R-Seat-Leon-Audi-A3-Audi-A3-Skoda-Octavia-VRS-all-2-0TFSi-EA113.html

Not one of them have laminar air flow corrector gauzes upstream of the MAF though.  I love how aftermarket parts people just completely omit key functions and then try to convince us they are not necessary when questioned about it.  And then 6 months later when the mounting lug has snapped off the Revo intake pipe due to the lack of a flex coupling.......silence.

It's an intake from Integrated Engineering, not from Regal. I didn't know its existence.

I'd like to know if the MAF scaling is really correct. The VWR intake is 4,7% off (which is still acceptable but not exactly the same as stock). A good tuner can correct the difference scaling, of course.

[pudding]

Ah OK, cool.  Integrated make some good stuff     

The Revo scaling is off as well.  You don't need to log it to know it.  You can feel it in the idle quality and it's sluggishness to pull away from a standstill (in a manual at least).  It's the slower air speeds which are affected by it the most. Quite amusing really as Revo bang on about MAF scaling being 'an art' on their website   

Yes, same issue with my VWR too.  It idled like crap. Stick the factory air box back on and voila, problem solved.

Again.....they've simply ignored what the OEM did because they couldn't match the flow characteristics of an elliptical MAF housing with a laminar grid.  You don't need a Masters degree in automotive engineering to see that mounting a MAF that close to a turbulent compressor wheel is going to cause problems.  Think of emptying a sink.   The water drops down the plug hole just fine with big volumes of water, but when the water is almost gone, you get a very visible whirlpool.  Same happens inside an intake tube with turbos and that is why that laminar grid is there - to straighten the air flow at idle and other slow gas speed situations. Oval tubes help reduce that as well. Rocket science it isn't!

I have a plan, but it won't be elegant looking but it will involve chopping out the MAF housing from the OEM cover 

Revo and VWR are lucky only 1 in 10000 customers are like me 

[Dan_FR]

Ah OK, cool.  Integrated make some good stuff     

The Revo scaling is off as well.  You don't need to log it to know it.  You can feel it in the idle quality and it's sluggishness to pull away from a standstill (in a manual at least).  It's the slower air speeds which are affected by it the most. Quite amusing really as Revo bang on about MAF scaling being 'an art' on their website   

Yes, same issue with my VWR too.  It idled like crap. Stick the factory air box back on and voila, problem solved.

Again.....they've simply ignored what the OEM did because they couldn't match the flow characteristics of an elliptical MAF housing with a laminar grid.  You don't need a Masters degree in automotive engineering to see that mounting a MAF that close to a turbulent compressor wheel is going to cause problems.  Think of emptying a sink.   The water drops down the plug hole just fine with big volumes of water, but when the water is almost gone, you get a very visible whirlpool.  Same happens inside an intake tube with turbos and that is why that laminar grid is there - to straighten the air flow at idle and other slow gas speed situations. Oval tubes help reduce that as well. Rocket science it isn't!

I have a plan, but it won't be elegant looking but it will involve chopping out the MAF housing from the OEM cover 

Revo and VWR are lucky only 1 in 10000 customers are like me 

What Revo don't tell you is that the MAF scaling of their intake is matched in their software. Run an OEM housing with an aftermarket intake on their software (2+ based on my experience) and you end up with a lower reading, sluggish car and high LTFT (12-15%) - Been there and tried it, even with the OEM MAF screen and various size/shape home made alternatives (they genuinely make very little difference with an aftermarket intake pipe from my experience).

If your software uses the standard MAF maps then I'm sure a standard MAF housing will be an improvement.

Not sure which other tuners, if any, spend time correcting the MAF tables

I have also tried MAF pipes from other aftermarket intakes and saw a LTFT of around +10% and a distinctly sluggish performance off boost as you've described.

I must have been lucky with the MAF pipe I currently have, sourced from a CTS intake if I remember rightly but the dimensions and MAF location (including depth/positioning inside the pipe) are identical to the Revo...... LTFT is literally + or - 2% - depending on driving style and how much the WMI has been used. The mounting depth of the MAF inside the circular pipe is crucial to airflow readings on these intakes and seems to be overlooked by many companies.

End result - very spritely and eager even though I have no runner flaps which will only hinder low air speed scenarios.

[pudding]

Interesting, cheers Dan.  I am glad someone else has also pondered on this and looked into alternatives.

I am getting a Stage 2+ Revo flash tomorrow, so I will see if things improve.  I did wonder if their tune is specifically matched to their own intake, but then again if it was, surely they would insist on using their own intake and not let you use Brand X?  When I enquired with Revo HQ, they just said an intake was required......not theirs specifically.  Anyway, I'm sure a Revo tune + Revo intake should work better.

MAF scaling is certainly an issue.   I remember back in the day playing with VR6s and Vortech blowers.  The OEM MAF hated it.  That whirlpool effect I mentioned where the air flow is denser at the pipe perimeter compared to the middle - i.e. smack bang where the sensor reads from!  People who'd binned the laminar corrector 'for improved flow' reasons suffered even more.  The engine would barely idle.  Modern MAFs have improved with directional characteristics to cancel out back flow from recirc valves, but mounting it so close to the turbo is still an issue, hence why they still use the air straightener.  Not a problem if the MAF is mounted far way from the source of turbulence, like the TTS engine for example.......but for us EA113 boys, it needs careful consideration when moving away from stock.

Sounds like you've managed to pull it off.  I would prefer a straight, uncalculated MAF reading in Litres per min instead of grams per second, since the engine volume is in litres and we know what the mechanical ingestion amount at idle should be.  Then we can see if the aftermarket intake matches it exactly.   Simply looking for ~3.5 g/s at idle isn't always a good indication it's accurate.   I get the same readings at idle with the Revo as I do the Stock intake......but the stock intake idles a lot smoother and is more eager to get moving.

Anyway, tomorrow will be a good test!

[Dan_FR]

Interesting, cheers Dan.  I am glad someone else has also pondered on this and looked into alternatives.

I am getting a Stage 2+ Revo flash tomorrow, so I will see if things improve.  I did wonder if their tune is specifically matched to their own intake, but then again if it was, surely they would insist on using their own intake and not let you use Brand X?  When I enquired with Revo HQ, they just said an intake was required......not theirs specifically.  Anyway, I'm sure a Revo tune + Revo intake should work better.

MAF scaling is certainly an issue.   I remember back in the day playing with VR6s and Vortech blowers.  The OEM MAF hated it.  That whirlpool effect I mentioned where the air flow is denser at the pipe perimeter compared to the middle - i.e. smack bang where the sensor reads from!  People who'd binned the laminar corrector 'for improved flow' reasons suffered even more.  The engine would barely idle.  Modern MAFs have improved with directional characteristics to cancel out back flow from recirc valves, but mounting it so close to the turbo is still an issue, hence why they still use the air straightener.  Not a problem if the MAF is mounted far way from the source of turbulence, like the TTS engine for example.......but for us EA113 boys, it needs careful consideration when moving away from stock.

Sounds like you've managed to pull it off.  I would prefer a straight, uncalculated MAF reading in Litres per min instead of grams per second, since the engine volume is in litres and we know what the mechanical ingestion amount at idle should be.  Then we can see if the aftermarket intake matches it exactly.   Simply looking for ~3.5 g/s at idle isn't always a good indication it's accurate.   I get the same readings at idle with the Revo as I do the Stock intake......but the stock intake idles a lot smoother and is more eager to get moving.

Anyway, tomorrow will be a good test!

Hardware requirements for their software do specify a Revo intake for Stage 2 and 2+..... but then what manufacturer doesn't recommend their own version of a product

What intake and software are you currently running?

[pudding]

Interesting.  When I was speaking to Steve Worthington at Revo, he didn't specify a particular intake, just that one was required.  He didn't elaborate any further but if their software is tuned for their specific MAF pipe, then I can see why it's needed.

Currently running the Revo intake with 'custom' tuning.  It's stage 2+ boost levels, so ~2bar peak tapering off past 5K.  It's fine in the most part, just the onset of boost @ 2500-3000rpm is overwhelming the engine resulting in a king size flat spot......the classic KO4 surge.  I'm interested to see how Revo deal with this common problem......but I always loved Revo maps. Super smooth, hence giving their 2+ a whirl.