VW Racing Big Brake kit product review

[Janner_Sy]

I believe i may be responsible for opening this

[MAT ED30]

I think mine might be the other way around as Dave says mmmm will pop the pads out and have a look

[Janner_Sy]

I think mine might be the other way around as Dave says mmmm will pop the pads out and have a look

I presume by looking at the orientation of the bleed nipples would be the easiest way of knowing?

[SteveP]

DS2500's, not sure exactly how many miles / track days as these are NeilM's old pads as previously mentioned. As QD will confirm mine where far worse when they failed at Spa.

Going to follow it up this week as when I mentioned it to VWR last year they claimed to have never heard of the issue.

Could using DS2500s not being making a small issue a much larger issue.  DS2500s are only a fast road/light track pad.  For what you and neilM ar suing them on caged very powerful trackcars running semi slick and even slick tyres etc.  You would be able to get you would be able to get your brakes running huge temperatures compared to what i could manage on my little Fabia.

DS2500's are what VWR recommend for all applications, they have told me a number of the race cars still run the 2500 rather than the 3000.

The new pads installed today are 3000's though  

[Janner_Sy]

Christ, i managed to get the DS2500s to fade with 312mm discs on my octavia when at Oschersleben Motorsport Arena.

That said, the discs are only small so wont dissipate the heat as well.  Guess the Octavia is a heavy beast as well

[chungster]

Christ, i managed to get the DS2500s to fade with 312mm discs on my octavia when at Oschersleben Motorsport Arena.

That said, the discs are only small so wont dissipate the heat as well.  Guess the Octavia is a heavy beast as well

As DaveB said earlier the DS2500 is a good Fast Road / light track use pad. I have them in my AP 4 pots. Done a few track days on them and theyve been fine but then again I know my own limits when out on track. The R is my road car at the end of the day.

[tony_danza]

Non floating 2-piece discs are an odd choice, 2 metals expanding/contracting at different rates will only either stress the bolts or the weaker of the two materials. Mine used to grow by 7-8mm in diameter (tell tales on the bells).

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

Regarding floating or bolted, floating rotors are nice good to have invariably you'll always be bouncing off a temperature ceiling with bolted rotors. It needs to be explained that there is NO benefit in using these rotors if you want to have the benefit of expansion as heat increases, the rotor has NOWHERE to go. Using these rotors is a weight saving measure there is no other benefit if the disc is warped the disc can knock the pistons back into the caliper making the pedal seem unresponsive

For high end setups, track cars ( and I mean ALMS cars, Formula 1 cars upto about 5 years ago) you need axial and radial float! Radial is the expansion of the disc from say 360mm to say 365mm as it gets hot, axial float is the ability of the disc to acquire its own centre in the caliper, this needs to be controlled up to a max of about .7 of a mm ideally 0.2mm,

To mount the disc in a way that not only ALLOWS this float but also controls it is expensive but gives MASSIVE headroom and improves wear.

Whether you need bolted or floating is a function of corner entry speed and whether or not you want to put 5-6 laps back to back or 15-25 without worrying about brakes.

THe TTRS is a real disc eater especially in stage 2 guise we've had huge success on that car with these, they've done track days, rally's, shoot outs with Jonny C driving !

This is my TTRS replacement disc this is the hardware and bell design required for high end heat management, it's also OEM quiet and you can do 20 laps at Oulton drive home and then drive to work the following day without ever NOTICING your brakes. We designed and had manufactured the bobbin springs ourselves (Epic project, believe it or not Rochdale is the spring manufacturing centre of the cosmos....long story)

I've got this disc in Gallardo/ R8 front and rear/ C5 RS6, RS5, TTRS & Mk5 version with and without the built in spacer all fantastically technically successful.



the only person using this arrangement on here is Geordie56 on his rocco, I was desperate for you to have a go in it Steve as I think you would be converted, and imvho it's the pinnacle non hyped setup for the Mk5 platform.

if he ever packs in blowing it up, I hope you'll get a go in it

So what's my point?

It's the same price as the VWR kit.......

[Janner_Sy]

The rotors have ZERO float, they are simply bolted, the calipers are two piece so prone to flex, and all this hype about piston sizes is a load of crap , the surface area will work our at around 49-52 sq cm, they might tune the caliper with a smaller small piston for better bite but what's the point when they turn it upside down?

If they're having to turn it upside down to get it to work the piston sizes are WRONG.

Why would reversing the calipers provide no stopping power?  Surely outright stopping power would be similar if not identical, but with the small piston deploying first you would maybe have a more progressive setup that doesn't eat pads?

Ref the fixed/bolted rotors vs floating, whats the real world difference between them bearing in mind im not a racing driver.  Also do they not use the same bolted discs for the race cars?

Thoughts Dave?

[jimk04]

Surprised to see these pukka brake kits having such bad pad wear,..rate and uniformity. Tho if they aren't oriented correctly piston wise.....but how do vmr sanction a kit with the calipers seemingly the wrong way round?!

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

The rotors have ZERO float, they are simply bolted, the calipers are two piece so prone to flex, and all this hype about piston sizes is a load of crap , the surface area will work our at around 49-52 sq cm, they might tune the caliper with a smaller small piston for better bite but what's the point when they turn it upside down?

If they're having to turn it upside down to get it to work the piston sizes are WRONG.

Why would reversing the calipers provide no stopping power?  Surely outright stopping power would be similar if not identical, but with the small piston deploying first you would maybe have a more progressive setup that doesn't eat pads?

Ref the fixed/bolted rotors vs floating, whats the real world difference between them bearing in mind im not a racing driver.  Also do they not use the same bolted discs for the race cars?

Thoughts Dave?

It's horsesh*t, race drivers are on the brakes VERY hard for a very short space of time so they may want the big piston to do all the work in a massive hurry but all that demonstrates is a bad design the right way round..

There is a Move back to 4 pots now in GT2 circles who knows what VWR are doing supplying back to front kits..

Kev at KPM does know his stuff however (I'm sending my customers there) so there might be something to it, I would guess it may be something to do with the overall shortcomings of the design and people asking big questions of it

By rights it's not a technically advanced kit for pure track work, we've got unsupported support for it from people with vested interests but that's it, compared to say an AP competition kit which does work its half price. Don't think that everything that goes onto a prepared track car is the creme de la creme of kit because that's not the case.

Don't know about the bolted/floating race prep....race teams will generally use what they can getaway with, don't forget they can probably do away with inner arches and organise some proper ducting where a road car cant which would help...it's a budget approach to heat management, consider a fully floating setup with proper cooling....you'll run out of petrol before brakes .

[SteveP]

the only person using this arrangement on here is Geordie56 on his rocco, I was desperate for you to have a go in it Steve as I think you would be converted, and imvho it's the pinnacle non hyped setup for the Mk5 platform.

if he ever packs in blowing it up, I hope you'll get a go in it

So what's my point?

It's the same price as the VWR kit.......

Interesting Dave, when Shaun has his car back up and running then I will certainly try to give them a go  

[tony_danza]

Regal won the VW Cup in their MKV with exactly the same brakes I had on my car. I still maintain that you don't need anything bigger than 343/4pots on a Golf.

Jesus, I'm running 6pots /340s on 1500kgs+ of 135i and that stopped all day at Spa/Ring/Ring F1 track/Rockingham..... I've still got 10mm left on the RS29s too.

Get the right kit for the job. 

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

^^^^^

What he said, we actually brought the diameter down on the TTRS after doing the maths from 370mm to 362mm that was a big sell believe me....

That said its only a matter of weeks before we see stage 3 TTRS running 600BHP+, I'm happy with the maths on that application.

[tony_danza]

Vanity sells. The amount of people saying "oh, I'd have them if they were red" when I sold up - clowns.