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Author Topic: massive thanks to redrobin and milltek  (Read 14642 times)

Offline QD MBE

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Re: massive thanks to redrobin and milltek
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2010, 10:30:11 pm »

Phil Mcavity

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Re: massive thanks to redrobin and milltek
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2010, 10:32:23 pm »
think you lot are missing the point .

I do to!  :confused:

This has gone off on some Tangent here. Just wanted to thanks along with Gillm from Robins efforts to help us both.
Its a rare thing these days for someone to do more then you would ever ask and do a very kind gesture for us both. Shame to start to ruin this thread guys with other experiances that have no meaning to the thread.




« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 10:33:56 pm by Phil Mcavity »

Offline Poverty

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Re: massive thanks to redrobin and milltek
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2010, 10:33:17 pm »
natural thread progression imo. Takes nothing away from redrobin.

Offline RedRobin

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Re: massive thanks to redrobin and milltek
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2010, 10:35:03 pm »

I believe the Forum is best served by unbiased reporting, and people making up their own minds.

 :happy2:

....The different and even opposite opinions being expressed in this very thread are a very clear indication that indeed people here do make up their own minds. I agree that that's how it should be.

I don't understand your reference to "unbiassed reporting" because I think that's what gets posted on this forum too. Unless of course you mistake the expression of positive enthusiasm for something or some company as a bias.

I'm very grateful indeed to be thanked for my efforts and extremely happy to be able to help occasionally but I'm now off to see a movie!

 :drinking:


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Offline QD MBE

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Re: massive thanks to redrobin and milltek
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2010, 09:26:28 am »

I believe the Forum is best served by unbiased reporting, and people making up their own minds.

 :happy2:

....The different and even opposite opinions being expressed in this very thread are a very clear indication that indeed people here do make up their own minds. I agree that that's how it should be.

I don't understand your reference to "unbiassed reporting" because I think that's what gets posted on this forum too. Unless of course you mistake the expression of positive enthusiasm for something or some company as a bias.

I'm very grateful indeed to be thanked for my efforts and extremely happy to be able to help occasionally but I'm now off to see a movie!

 :drinking:

The reference to unbiased reporting was made to promote the forum as a free site; by free I mean that we are not beholden to any site sponsors.

RR I would like to know - have you had any problems with Milltek exhausts?  I know that you have done development work for Milltek.

 I do find that your enthusiasm for various garages/tuners/manufacturers can sometimes over shadow the experiences that others have had.

I and others have had several problems with VWR and other tuners, given them chance to rectify, which they have done, but I will still report the facts.  I have found that cust service once engaged, is usually good, but why is it needed at all?

I believe that your relationship with Milltek needs publicising to promote the unbiased nature of the forum.

  :happy2:
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 10:32:24 am by stokeballoon »

Offline RedRobin

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Re: massive thanks to redrobin and milltek
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2010, 11:41:23 am »

The reference to unbiased reporting was made to promote the forum as a free site; by free I mean that we are not beholden to any site sponsors.

RR I would like to know - have you had any problems with Milltek exhausts?  I know that you have done development work for Milltek.

 I do find that your enthusiasm for various garages/tuners/manufacturers can sometimes over shadow the experiences that others have had.

I and others have had several problems with VWR and other tuners, given them chance to rectify, which they have done, but I will still report the facts.  I have found that cust service once engaged, is usually good, but why is it needed at all?

I believe that your relationship with Milltek needs publicising to promote the unbiased nature of the forum.

  :happy2:


....To answer your questions, Dave, and for anyone else who is interested:

Firstly, I am not beholden to anybody, be they company or forum or individual, and I am totally independent.

MILLTEK:

Yes, I have had problems with Milltek exhaust products. In fact, it's how I had first direct contact with them and how my excellent relationship with them started several years ago. I have already publicly reported problems.

Yes, I have also done product testing for Milltek and various other car industry companies as well. As in all pre public release testing I consider I have a primary duty to report back to manufacturer/company and not to the public until a product is launched. This is done informally and as a matter of trust. Confidentiality can often be important where there is commercial competition - In the case of Adobe, for example, I have signed a 6-page non-disclosure document.

I am not the only member of this forum to do pre public release testing and it's to everyone's benefit as a result.

My excellent relationship with Milltek, and other companies/tuners etc, continues. As an enthusiast who knows a lot of people and who consequently has a lot of contacts, I am able to network and help both people who are customers/end-users and manufacturers/resellers.

As someone whose working life experience has been decades of relationships with the 'top honchos' of companies from international conglomerates to one-man bands, I am not phased and I understand the value of personal relationships and friendships. As a consequence of my friendship with Phil Millington, Milltek MD, and my friendships and acquaintances with forum members, I can often see both sides of a problem and can sometimes be a help to both parties. This thread is an appreciative thankyou for my recent efforts. I cannot control the outcome but it is surely better than leaving someone to whinge without solving their problem.


RELATIONSHIPS:

Again as a result of my life experience, I am a 'people' person: I believe that any organisation, be it user forum or commercial company, is chiefly what it is as a result of the people and individuals who form that organisation. Consequently my relationships with those I get on with in companies are no different than those I get on with here on a user forum. I am a man of peace (who often has to fight verbal battles to keep the peace!) and if I can help people by networking to solve problems etc then I think that's good.

Just as I have experienced and continue to experience excellent relationships with some companies, I also have had bad experiences with others and in the interests of balance I am happy to list them, though I don't see what good that would do in this context.

I can't help the expectations and prejudices that others might have - That's for them to resolve.


RR's ENTHUSIASM:

You say that you find that my enthusiasm for various garages/tuners/manufacturers can sometimes overshadow the experiences that others have had. You have already answered this yourself: People here are intelligent enough to make up their own minds about what they read about various products/services etc.

It's surely inevitable that different individuals will have different and opposite experiences and report them accordingly. It's important to realise that some of the opinions about poor customer service that people have may be brought on by their own expectations and attitudes.

I make no apology for being an enthusiastic and positive-thinking person - In fact I feel blessed that I am.

You ask why is customer service needed at all? - Simply because we are human. Need I say more?

 
Can I go now, please? I need to have breakfast and clean my car's arse in readiness for VC's Fast sticker.  :smiley:

« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 12:31:07 pm by RedRobin »


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Offline QD MBE

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Re: massive thanks to redrobin and milltek
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2010, 12:23:53 pm »

The reference to unbiased reporting was made to promote the forum as a free site; by free I mean that we are not beholden to any site sponsors.

RR I would like to know - have you had any problems with Milltek exhausts?  I know that you have done development work for Milltek.

 I do find that your enthusiasm for various garages/tuners/manufacturers can sometimes over shadow the experiences that others have had.

I and others have had several problems with VWR and other tuners, given them chance to rectify, which they have done, but I will still report the facts.  I have found that cust service once engaged, is usually good, but why is it needed at all?

I believe that your relationship with Milltek needs publicising to promote the unbiased nature of the forum.

  :happy2:


....To answer your questions, Dave, and for anyone else who is interested:

Firstly, I am not beholden to anybody, be they company or individual, and I am totally independent.

MILLTEK:

Yes, I have had problems with Milltek exhaust products. In fact, it's how I had first direct contact with them and how my excellent relationship with them started several years ago. I have already publicly reported problems.

Yes, I have also done product testing for Milltek and various other car industry companies as well. As in all pre public release testing I consider I have a primary duty to report back to manufacturer/company and not to the public until a product is launched. This is done informally and as a matter of trust. Confidentiality can often be important where there is commercial competition - In the case of Adobe, for example, I have signed a 6-page non-disclosure document.

I am not the only member of this forum to do pre public release testing and it's to everyone's benefit as a result.

My excellent relationship with Milltek, and other companies/tuners etc, continues. As an enthusiast who knows a lot of people and who consequently has a lot of contacts, I am able to network and help both people who are customers/end-users and manufacturers/resellers.

As someone whose working life experience has been decades of relationships with the 'top honchos' of companies from international conglomerates to one-man bands, I am not phased and I understand the value of personal relationships and friendships. As a consequence of my friendship with Phil Millington, Milltek MD, and my friendships and acquaintances with forum members, I can often see both sides of a problem and can sometimes be a help to both parties. This thread is an appreciative thankyou for my recent efforts. I cannot control the outcome but it is surely better than leaving someone to whinge without solving their problem.


RELATIONSHIPS:

Again as a result of my life experience, I am a 'people' person: I believe that any organisation, be it user forum or commercial company, is chiefly what it is as a result of the people and individuals who form that organisation. Consequently my relationships with those I get on with in companies are no different than those I get on with here on a user forum. I am a man of peace (who often has to fight verbal battles to keep the peace!) and if I can help people by networking to solve problems etc then I think that's good.

Just as I have experienced and continue to experience excellent relationships with some companies, I also have had bad experiences with others and in the interests of balance I am happy to list them, though I don't see what good that would do in this context.
I can't help the expectations and prejudices that others might have - That's for them to resolve.


RR's ENTHUSIASM:

You say that you find that my enthusiasm for various garages/tuners/manufacturers can sometimes overshadow the experiences that others have had. You have already answered this yourself: People here are intelligent enough to make up their own minds about what they read about various products/services etc.

It's surely inevitable that different individuals will have different and opposite experiences and report them accordingly.

I make no apology for being an enthusiastic and positive-thinking person - In fact I feel blessed that I am.

You ask why is customer service needed at all? - Simply because we are human. Need I say more?

 
Can I go now, please? I need to have breakfast and clean my car's arse in readiness for VC's Fast sticker.  :smiley:



RR thank you for your reply.

I for one can see huge benefit of you reporting your experiences, both poor and good.  Your car is heavily Modded, I would see huge forum gains in the reporting of such difficulties.

I know you are a positive person, but I feel the effect of you reporting the poor detail will make the forum a better place, and more information about various items cannot be a bad thing?

You accused me of promoting the negative aspects of some of my mods, I was not being negative, just showing the whole picture.

Do you think it fair for you not to report on various poor aspects of development items you have fitted, due to commercial confidentiality?  Perhaps in that case it would be more beneficial to the manufacturer for you not to report at all?

Thanks once again for the reply.


Offline JPC

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Re: massive thanks to redrobin and milltek
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2010, 12:28:41 pm »

Offline VC

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Re: massive thanks to redrobin and milltek
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2010, 01:21:06 pm »
i genuinely laughed out loud at that ^^^  :signLOL:

Offline micky 32

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Re: massive thanks to redrobin and milltek
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2010, 01:35:11 pm »
I have had a lot of quality issues with my Milltek. Firstly the middle box had a blow when i fitted it. There was weld missing at one of the joints where it goes into the box, they hadn't fully welded all the way around, so i said ok i just put a spot of weld on it and it was fine. I also had sealing problems at the joints, sealing paste did help. Every few hundred miles i had to straighten the back box and eventually i put a weld spot on the joint to stop it moving. Not to mention it tries to pull itself apart.

 My old Golf, the back box after 3 years the bracket broke off. Of course because i couldn't find the receipt they wouldn't change it, an excuse really because why do you need a receipt when there is a lifetime warranty?? Luckily i managed to get it welded.
2008 Octavia vRS K04'd , Forge twintercooler, Evoms, Autotech uprated pump, full Milltek exhaust 324bhp on JKM's rollers ;-)

Offline Greeners

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Re: massive thanks to redrobin and milltek
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2010, 01:41:17 pm »
I have had a lot of quality issues with my Milltek. Firstly the middle box had a blow when i fitted it. There was weld missing at one of the joints where it goes into the box, they hadn't fully welded all the way around, so i said ok i just put a spot of weld on it and it was fine. I also had sealing problems at the joints, sealing paste did help. Every few hundred miles i had to straighten the back box and eventually i put a weld spot on the joint to stop it moving. Not to mention it tries to pull itself apart.

 My old Golf, the back box after 3 years the bracket broke off. Of course because i couldn't find the receipt they wouldn't change it, an excuse really because why do you need a receipt when there is a lifetime warranty?? Luckily i managed to get it welded.

I had a similar problem with my back box 'moving' after a few days and this also had to be spot welded. This was fitted by a local garage who have no experience in fitting aftermarket equipment. I have recently changed my back box (not due to a problem I may add) and this was fitted by VWR who have vast experience in fitting Milltek. No spot welds required and it hasn't budged a mm!  :happy2:

Offline RedRobin

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Re: massive thanks to redrobin and milltek
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2010, 01:43:19 pm »

RR thank you for your reply.

I for one can see huge benefit of you reporting your experiences, both poor and good.  Your car is heavily Modded, I would see huge forum gains in the reporting of such difficulties.

I know you are a positive person, but I feel the effect of you reporting the poor detail will make the forum a better place, and more information about various items cannot be a bad thing?

You accused me of promoting the negative aspects of some of my mods, I was not being negative, just showing the whole picture.

Do you think it fair for you not to report on various poor aspects of development items you have fitted, due to commercial confidentiality?  Perhaps in that case it would be more beneficial to the manufacturer for you not to report at all?

Thanks once again for the reply.


....I'm really appreciative that we can discuss such subjects openly and with such great respect for each other.

Slight misunderstanding perhaps in that I'm not against your honest reporting including negatives. Ambiguous choice of words on my part? A niggle I had about just one particular post/comment? I don't know but please understand that I'm not generally anti the negatives. I don't feel we should debate it with a detailed post mortem either.

In my opinion it's entirely fair not to report on various poor aspects of development items I have fitted, due to commercial confidentiality. By being in a public arena, not only can it potentially give commercial competitors an unfair advantage but it also betrays trust. However, for example I can now report that Milltek's powdercoated tips which I tested were unsatisfactory and that the ceramic coated versions after my testing were found to be very satisfactory and are now available.

I usually ask the manufacturer how confidential a subject is and respect their answer accordingly.


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Offline QD MBE

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Re: massive thanks to redrobin and milltek
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2010, 02:09:02 pm »

RR thank you for your reply.

I for one can see huge benefit of you reporting your experiences, both poor and good.  Your car is heavily Modded, I would see huge forum gains in the reporting of such difficulties.

I know you are a positive person, but I feel the effect of you reporting the poor detail will make the forum a better place, and more information about various items cannot be a bad thing?

You accused me of promoting the negative aspects of some of my mods, I was not being negative, just showing the whole picture.

Do you think it fair for you not to report on various poor aspects of development items you have fitted, due to commercial confidentiality?  Perhaps in that case it would be more beneficial to the manufacturer for you not to report at all?

Thanks once again for the reply.


....I'm really appreciative that we can discuss such subjects openly and with such great respect for each other.

Slight misunderstanding perhaps in that I'm not against your honest reporting including negatives. Ambiguous choice of words on my part? A niggle I had about just one particular post/comment? I don't know but please understand that I'm not generally anti the negatives. I don't feel we should debate it with a detailed post mortem either.

In my opinion it's entirely fair not to report on various poor aspects of development items I have fitted, due to commercial confidentiality. By being in a public arena, not only can it potentially give commercial competitors an unfair advantage but it also betrays trust. However, for example I can now report that Milltek's powdercoated tips which I tested were unsatisfactory and that the ceramic coated versions after my testing were found to be very satisfactory and are now available.

I usually ask the manufacturer how confidential a subject is and respect their answer accordingly.


Utterly disagree.  We then only get to hear on how 'brilliant' the item is, and not the downsides, hence my thoughts that development items should not be reported on.

If you only have the positive aspects, then surely you have commercial interests to the manufacturer?  To tell 1/2 the story is plain and simple just being economical with the truth.

It is unfair to the other manufacturers that this unbiased and un-sponsored forum be used as a vehicle to promote only the positive aspects of their items.

Not fair at all IMO.

I for one will continue to report good and bad points on Mods, which I feel is in the best interests of the forum.




Offline Greeners

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Re: massive thanks to redrobin and milltek
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2010, 02:18:03 pm »
Surely the whole point of a ''development item'' is to find faults and rectify, so what would be the point in reporting a fault to other forum members when a product that is not ready for market?  :confused:

Or am I missing the point somewhere??  :chicken:

Offline RedRobin

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Re: massive thanks to redrobin and milltek
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2010, 02:22:43 pm »

Utterly disagree.  We then only get to hear on how 'brilliant' the item is, and not the downsides, hence my thoughts that development items should not be reported on.

If you only have the positive aspects, then surely you have commercial interests to the manufacturer?  To tell 1/2 the story is plain and simple just being economical with the truth.

It is unfair to the other manufacturers that this unbiased and un-sponsored forum be used as a vehicle to promote only the positive aspects of their items.

Not fair at all IMO.

I for one will continue to report good and bad points on Mods, which I feel is in the best interests of the forum.


....Er?  :confused:

I'm saying that I would not report on a manufacturer's product I was testing until that product was on public release.

You wrote:

Quote
"..hence my thoughts that development items should not be reported on"

Are we not saying the same thing?  :confused:

IMO it should be exactly as Greenouse says:

Surely the whole point of a ''development item'' is to find faults and rectify, so what would be the point in reporting a fault to other forum members when a product that is not ready for market?  :confused:

Or am I missing the point somewhere??  :chicken:

For example, I did not comment on Revo's DSG software until it was released publicly. Others here behaved in the same way.

If you read my reviews, I list pro's and con's just like everyone else does, including yourself.


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