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Author Topic: Down on power....  (Read 61828 times)

Offline joesgti

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Re: Down on power....
« Reply #60 on: November 03, 2008, 03:53:00 pm »
trust me, you would know the difference. the spool up was alot slower on my car and a slight lag, now no lag whatsoever. have you got any graphs that you could post of your car on the RR? i can then compare this to some of my older ones!  :smiley:

....Surely you should not have experienced any noticeable lag before the S3 i/c was installed. Butt dyno? Placebo?

No time to sort out graphs, pics of, uploading etc right now - I'll post an overview when this issue is solved - I have other priorities right now.

not so much lag, just took longer to spool, so i guess this is lag?  :rolleye:


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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Down on power....
« Reply #61 on: November 03, 2008, 04:15:24 pm »
well i cant recomend the s3 cooler enough!!! turbo spools up ALOT quicker and holds boost alot better higher up in the revrange!

its one of the only mods that i could feel the difference when driving!  :jumpmove:

....I'm not saying that the S3 i/c isn't an excellent mod, but only that JKM's logs (no, they haven't removed the stock i/c for tests - TT please note) are not indicating any issues with my stock i/c.

To feel the difference on road rather than track, Joe, I reckon you must be driving your car like you stole her - But I suggest that without the experience of driving one myself.

Whereas JKM would of course like the extra business of installing a S3 i/c, all their logging etc on my car suggests that unless I was doing trackdays, my stock i/c is doing its job, and though a great mod, it's not one I need at present.

:happy2:

But I am stating that JKM are NOT testing your i/c correctly.

The correct way to "log" an intercooler is NOT on an RR, but out driving the car, capturing data on the fly.  The simple fact that JKM have not even carried out basic testing on the i/c, yet also state that your stock i/c is perfectly fine is completey beyond me!

Their approach is completely out of order, because JKM have failed on many levels for correctly testing the i/c - but what do I know.  My "knowledge" has only been proven in an English court of Law as being a legal "Expert" standard, even against the world's largest insurer (Lloyds of London, High Court Division).  But if you are happy to be fobbed off by JKM, then good look to you!  :sad:

And just for the record, you do NOT need to be "driving like you stole it" to notice the difference of the S3 cooler.
Sean - Independant Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Down on power....
« Reply #62 on: November 03, 2008, 04:19:59 pm »
KO4 would need relocation of DV + new discharge pipe but theoretically it should work as long as you limit the boost, but then you wouldn't be running K04 specific software so it wont try and hold the boost for that long anyway.

....Surely fitting a K04 without the rest of the package would result in turbo lag. It's swings vs roundabouts (assuming you know the expression).

On a standard car, maybe.  Comparing a standard K03 to a standard K04, then the K03 can provide peak boost from about 1750rpms, whereas the K04 peaks from around 2250rpms.  But with a remap, you should be able to negate some of the lag.

Need I remind anyone that the whole package costs £4K.

Where does the £4k come from?
Sean - Independant Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Down on power....
« Reply #63 on: November 03, 2008, 04:50:07 pm »
....

Steady on, TT - AFAIK, JKM HAVE been out on the road capturing data on the fly - They usually do. They really are much more thorough, and experienced with this engine, than you seem prepared to accept. Just because I personally don't know or understand all the detail doesn't mean they have been remiss.

Re my comment to Joe about driving like you stole it - I did also say that I hadn't ever driven a S3 i/c equipped GTI and therefore was saying I had no back-up for my comment.

Let's not let this degenerate into any mud slinging. At least, not at this stage please.


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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Down on power....
« Reply #64 on: November 03, 2008, 05:08:57 pm »
Sorry Robin, I'm not trying to start a slanging match or anything.  :smiley: 

But I feel like sh!t today, and am trying to offer my advice, and perhaps I misunderstood what you said about JKM.  However, I do feel they are wrong to state that a standard GTI cooler is satisfactory when compared against the level of modifications of your own red beast.

Peace.  :smiley:  :grouphug:
Sean - Independant Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Down on power....
« Reply #65 on: November 03, 2008, 05:21:12 pm »
Sorry Robin, I'm not trying to start a slanging match or anything.  :smiley: 

But I feel like sh!t today, and am trying to offer my advice, and perhaps I misunderstood what you said about JKM.  However, I do feel they are wrong to state that a standard GTI cooler is satisfactory when compared against the level of modifications of your own red beast.

Peace.  :smiley:  :grouphug:

....Your advice is ALWAYS appreciated whether you feel like sh!t or whether it's controversial :happy2:

JKM aren't exactly saying that a standard GTI cooler is satisfactory but more that they don't believe it to be the 'cause' (probably not quite the right word) of my boost problem. For what it's worth, Revo independently think the same. Both (independently) would recommend the S3 cooler as an excellent and helpful mod, and, as I have said, I will probably get one in the future. But now, it wouldn't appear to solve my problem.

Get well soon, mate! :smiley:


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Offline neg

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Re: Down on power....
« Reply #66 on: November 03, 2008, 05:39:29 pm »
I agree with what RR is saying, although the S3 would be a great benefit he wants to sort out the boost issue in hand and I dont think upgrading the IC is going to prove anything - as I (if I get time) will demonstrate this weekend ;)

TBH I didn't really want to get one just yet but though I would as they were at a decent price.

As for £4k, I am starting to wonder.. if I were to replace the turbo, I could go for the K04, discharge pipe and relocation of the DV - parts coming to (complete estimate) £1k or so - then continue to run on the Stage2+ K03 map with (hopefully) no downfalls except maybe not getting all from the K04 turbo - then if I wanted to go a stage further I could swap the injectors and get the upgraded K04 map.

Offline neg

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Re: Down on power....
« Reply #67 on: November 03, 2008, 05:42:38 pm »
Looks like the N75 is mounted to the charger

see here

Edit: changed to a link to save space  :happy2:

Offline Hurdy

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Re: Down on power....
« Reply #68 on: November 03, 2008, 05:54:31 pm »
Robin, sorry to hear it doesn't seem to be a simple fix :sad:

Draw out the positive and bung in the K04 :happy2:
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Down on power....
« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2008, 06:02:57 pm »
KO4 would need relocation of DV + new discharge pipe but theoretically it should work as long as you limit the boost, but then you wouldn't be running K04 specific software so it wont try and hold the boost for that long anyway.

....Surely fitting a K04 without the rest of the package would result in turbo lag. It's swings vs roundabouts (assuming you know the expression).

On a standard car, maybe.  Comparing a standard K03 to a standard K04, then the K03 can provide peak boost from about 1750rpms, whereas the K04 peaks from around 2250rpms.  But with a remap, you should be able to negate some of the lag.

....As I think any of us performance freaks here would be likely to do, I have considered the K04 option but it doesn't make sense unless I take the whole package of injectors, fuel pump, S3 intercooler, Revo2+ remap etc. Most of these components are VAG oem but the result on my GTI would be about 300 neddies at my front wheels. Yes, I love driving and I love the opportunity to drive very enthusiastically when I consider it safe, but I'm 61yo and not 18 and my balance of power, suspension, brakes, etc with Revo2 (probably around 250 bhp) feels perfect for me, personally. It's a feckin sweet ride!!

As Kev at Revo says, you have to draw your own line in the sand and decide what is enough. Otherwise it's never ending.

Coincidentally, Kev also knows the car my replacement turbo has come off and said that the owner had decided to do the K04 conversion immediately. Kev, like JKM, and TT here, would very strongly advise against a used turbo but this one is virtually only run-in, and knowing the car, can be recommended. The risk is very small indeed.

Need I remind anyone that the whole package costs £4K.

Where does the £4k come from?

....It's the "Basic K04 Upgrade" - http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/jkmtfsi-K04-upgrade.htm

Actually, because I already have Revo Stage2 I now realise it would cost me £3,355 inc vat. So less than £4,000 - I was mistaken. But if my K03 turbo transplant is successful on Friday it will be likely to have cost me around £800 including previous diagnostics/checks etc. But the bottom line is that I really don't want 300 bhp or to spend about £3.5K + £1.5K suspension + Monza powdercoating = £5.5K on top of what (don't ask!!!!) I've already spent on my car. I have to draw the line somewhere.

Besides, I wanna upgrade my big desktop Mac system and buy my daughter a MacBook Pro laptop for Uni.


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Offline 08micsta

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Re: Down on power....
« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2008, 06:09:24 pm »
Quote
Besides, I wanna upgrade my big desktop Mac system and buy my daughter a MacBook Pro laptop for Uni.

Seriously. When can I move in with you? lol
Just kidding. I must admit that I have full respect for you not going with the KO4 and 300 neddies. I know that if I could afford it I sure would.  :ashamed: :driver:

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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Down on power....
« Reply #71 on: November 03, 2008, 06:25:42 pm »
Robin, sorry to hear it doesn't seem to be a simple fix :sad:

Draw out the positive and bung in the K04 :happy2:

....Hurdy!! WTF are YOU doing here! Feck Off! and stop being a bad influence! :grin: :laugh: :P
 
:happy2:



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Offline Hurdy

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Re: Down on power....
« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2008, 07:26:34 pm »
Robin, sorry to hear it doesn't seem to be a simple fix :sad:

Draw out the positive and bung in the K04 :happy2:

....Hurdy!! WTF are YOU doing here! Feck Off! and stop being a bad influence! :grin: :laugh: :P
 
:happy2:



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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Down on power....
« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2008, 07:35:43 pm »
....

Throwing my own stuff back at me, eh?



I also don't want the insurance hike nor to eat so many tyres.


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Offline Hurdy

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Re: Down on power....
« Reply #74 on: November 03, 2008, 07:51:37 pm »
Look....You know you want to really! :driver: :evilgrin:
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