Sach clutch fitted but....

[danishmkvgti]

fuscobal did you buy your parts as a kit?? the 34 kit??

If so even their parts parred to eachother have trouble?

[steve D]

This was who i rang (thanks to greenouse for the link) http://www.sachs-boge.co.uk/

He said these clutch kits are design for race teams that will change the flywheels quite often and the problem is people are now fitting them to high powered road cars and the DMF just cant cope with the extra torque.

He also said the SMF will cope with the extra power but will mash your gear box in a short space of time and seemed to be aware of the gear change problems at high RPM!!!

So to sum it up if you fit a Sachs clutch you either use a DMF and drive like a fanny if its been re-mapped or drive the car hard and replace the DMF very often OR use a SMF which will cope with the extra power but means you have to change gear before 6krpm and it will wreck your gearbox!

What a joke.

[fuscobal]

Yes, I bought the ...34 kit wich includes SMF, PP and organic disc. I don't know if it's a problem between the 3 parts of the kit or between one of them and soem other OEM component of the car. Here's a short description of what happened to my car clutch related since the beginning :

1) OEM clutch let me down at about 50k km wich is decent but I was only stage 2 at that time (270HP/350NM)
2) Spec stage 2 with aluminium 3kg SMF + PP + organic disc > This one was properly burned in for about 1000km and then it was slipping even at 1/2 WOT !?!? The chatter was also unbearable so I sold it to someone with lower torque and it worked ok
3) OEM DMF + Sachs performance plate and organic disc > the clutch was very good and shifts were also lightning fast for 10k km when my OEM DMF got destroyed
4) SACHS SMF + PP + organic disc (the kit we're talkin about here) > This kit is absolutely wonderful in terms of clutch pedal feel/engagement precision and engine brake. Unfortunately it doesn't let me change gears fast wich is unacceptable if I want to go to Nurburgring in 2 month
5) I've put back number 3) with a new OEM DMF until number 4) gets back from expertise and everything is back to normal again but who knows how much the DMF will hold my torque

Wow, Steve what you say is serious. There are dozen of SMF kits on the market and none of them are advertised as destrying he gearbox. There are many that use them and don't have this shifting problem. At least 3 mechanics I've asked said the pressure plate on this kit is weak and that's why I can't change fast. I wonder why South Bend for example use a "modified" Sachs pressure plate for their SMF kits. What's not good enough about this pressure plate and needs to be improved ?

PS : Few days ago I driven an Octy VRS with about the same engine mods as me (tuning made by MTM) and the guy just fitted the Sounth Bend stage 3 SMF kit. While the pedal was very soft (close to stock) and the engine brake wasn't near as good as the one from my Sachs SMF kit, the changing of the gears at WOT was pretty normal (a little bit slower and notchier than an OEM Scirocco 2 TSI I've driven yesterday) !

Measures I'm going to take to see if things improve :

- Recently installed BSH pendelum lower engine mount and the shifting improved sligtly (was what I expected)
- Installed Forge short-shift wich didn't affect changing in any way, just the travel is shorter (was what I expected)
- Will install 42DD and FFE shifter bushings wich have been highly praised for making gearchange much faster and precise (these will be here in few days)

[steve D]

To be fair i couldnt quite believe what i was hearing  

 The bite on mine is right at the top of the peddle which i was told it wouldnt be aswell!
The clutch is quite noisey too but after having twin plates in other cars i've owned i can live with that.

It's just a nightmare for me as i bought this car as a family car for me a my missus to enjoy as we have are first child due anyday now and ive had nothing but problems since i decided to have it re-mapped.

Plus it doesnt look like it going to be sorted anytime soon at this rate... looks like im going to have to look at other clutch kits that are up to the job so that's another 1k + down the sh*tter.

[Sunglasses Ron]

If it helps Steve I know there are quite a few lads who have the Sachs clutch with the OEM DMF and have gone well over 10k on it with no problems. This is what Toby (lad with S3) has now done after the problems he had with his and AFAIK got Sachs to pay for it and sent the SMF back. Something which I would be looking at doing if I were you, as why should you lose £1k???

[steve D]

If it helps Steve I know there are quite a few lads who have the Sachs clutch with the OEM DMF and have gone well over 10k on it with no problems. This is what Toby (lad with S3) has now done after the problems he had with his and AFAIK got Sachs to pay for it and sent the SMF back. Something which I would be looking at doing if I were you, as why should you lose £1k???

I dont no what to think now tbh Ben, im going to have a word with Andy and see what he can sort but like you say why should i be out of pocket, but i just want the car running right as im fed up with p1ssing around...still got the HPFP sat here with the faulty collets as nothing has been sorted about it!!!

[Toast]

What a joke it is when every manual ed30 owner can't simpley buy a decent clutch setup

[DubED30]

What a joke it is when every manual ed30 owner can't simpley buy a decent clutch setup

It's slightly worrying.  Considering how big the tuning scene is for VW's and for how long GTI's have been about, it really does make you wonder. 

[Msportman]

This is shocking news


Having discussed the topic of diffs and clutches with Awesome about my old Ed30 they also mentioned issues with uprated clutches amd the horrific prices of them and the DMF.

The APR clutches are probably an unknown quantity in the UK.

It seems that with over 300lbs going thru the transmission will eventually tell on the OE clutch but I do think the pricing of these items are extortionate.

Are the S3 items bigger than the Edition 30?
I'm sure Awesome are now dealing with Helix which I've used before in motorsport and are very strong.

It is true that many race teams change the DMF  on a regular basis...their budgets stretch much further than mine!

Good luck!

[gillm]

my helix is rated at 450 ft/lb .

future proof i hope !

[fuscobal]

What's the price for a Helix SMF kit in Europe and how does it deal with lightning fast changes ?

[fuscobal]

Ok guys, Finally I've got the results back from Sachs. Their support was top notch (I've probably exchanged 30 e-mails with Mr. Markus Hammer in order to properly explain the problem. The report says :

Cover 88 3082 999 798:
The measurement of the cover reflected, that the clamping force and the release force is weak. The setup height in clamped situation is perfect. The contact pattern displayed small heat spots at several places.
Disc 88 1861 999 878:
The disc displayed no noticeable problems. A lining wear does not really happened. All the specifications (lateral runout / distortion = less than 0,18mm) are fulfilled.
Flywheel 00 3071 999 625:
The rigid flyhweel reflected no appreciable complaints.
Releaser:
The releaser reflected also no noilcable problems.
Result:
Due to accomodation, we have decided to assume a warranty for the claimed ZF Sachs Race parts and we will send a replacement for those units and the releaser (unmodified) back to you!

PS : Last weekend I drove a Leon Cupra with the exact same clutch and power/torque figures and it was shifting like dream. Not even the smallest hint of notchiness. By comparison, I've seen the same problem as mine on a Octavia 2 RS with South Bend stage 3 SMF kit !

[danishmkvgti]

good news fuscobal 

I might go for the sachs smf then, to much hazzle finding a sachs uprated for a luk dmf.
 

[fuscobal]

Let me put it on the car first when it gets here. Only when I see it works well I will celebrate ! 

[john_o]

nice info, just for clarity ...

1. are sachs saying there was nothing wrong with what you sent them, but they are going to replace it with new anyway?
(which is good but as you say be interesting to see if the new kit is any different when fitted..........if there is then they MUST have been different......)

2. was there any feedback from them concerning using a SMF on the 2.0TFSi engine and long term gearbox damage?

thanks
John