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Author Topic: Sach clutch fitted but....  (Read 40903 times)

Offline danishmkvgti

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Re: Sach clutch fitted but....
« Reply #60 on: May 12, 2010, 05:23:10 am »
my clutch was fitted friday done 800 kilometers since and i still have judder  + gearchange is different than before. :sad1:
Friend of mine had same setup fitted 3 days before, he has none of my problems  :confused:

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Offline john_o

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Re: Sach clutch fitted but....
« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2010, 08:00:08 am »
sorry to hear  :confused:
if you both fitted the exact same parts (did you check the part no's of the bits you both fitted) ?, then its time to find the differences.
do you both have the same flywheel (luk or sachs)? maybe your flywheel needs replaced?
what about considering the actuation system (replace fluid,check for bent hoses?)
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Offline danishmkvgti

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Re: Sach clutch fitted but....
« Reply #62 on: May 12, 2010, 08:58:14 am »
both cars fitted with sachs SMF, only difference was that his clutchplate had orientationmarks on as to which way it was to be fitted, mine didn't have these orientationmarks  :sad1:
So it might be a different batch/factory eventhough they had the same Sachs spare partnumber.

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Offline Sunglasses Ron

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Re: Sach clutch fitted but....
« Reply #63 on: May 12, 2010, 09:18:54 am »
No underlying problem it's just the friction plate is only rated to some stock ish figures or upto around 290bhp as mine was one of the first to go on stage one Revo and everything was fine it was just the friction plate could not grip enough
That's the OEM clutch though isn't it Mat? Not the Sachs one that went on Stage 1 Revo?
The problem to me seems to lie with the Sachs SMF, not the clutch. I know of quite a few lads who have the Sachs clutch with a new OEM DMF and they work fine. But I have now heard of 4 cars that have had the Sachs SMF set up and ALL have experienced problems.. This can't be a coincident surely?  :confused:

Offline KRL

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Re: Sach clutch fitted but....
« Reply #64 on: May 12, 2010, 10:24:08 am »
From what I understand the weak point on the OEM platform point seems to be the DMF and not the clutch?

If this is the case what is the point in replacing the DMF with another OEM one as surely if will fail again after a short amount of miles?

Does an uprated clutch extend the life of the DMF somehow?

Offline NB07

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Re: Sach clutch fitted but....
« Reply #65 on: May 12, 2010, 10:31:59 am »
im sure the VWR demo car has a standard clutch, not sure about DMF but it feels like a standard clutch

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Offline Msportman

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Re: Sach clutch fitted but....
« Reply #66 on: May 12, 2010, 08:48:54 pm »
From what I understand the weak point on the OEM platform point seems to be the DMF and not the clutch?

If this is the case what is the point in replacing the DMF with another OEM one as surely if will fail again after a short amount of miles?

Does an uprated clutch extend the life of the DMF somehow?

Good point!

It seems to be that it's the achilles heal as far as big power set up's are concerned or even stage 1 people seem to be getting failures. From the previuos post that race teams tend to change the DMF on a regular basis that maybe the case but for normal folk surely the cost of having to do this is prohibitvely expensive.

Is there a 100% fit and forget it solution especially for people running stage 2 and more?

I'd be even more concerned on track use where a diff would put even more strain on the transmission (clutch in particular)

 
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Offline Sunglasses Ron

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Re: Sach clutch fitted but....
« Reply #67 on: May 13, 2010, 11:27:35 am »
My mate has a Spec Stage 3 SMF and clutch kit on his Stage 2+ S3 that was around £1k (that's not fitted by the way). Apart from it being a tad rattly (which even I could put up with and i'm terrible with unwanted noises) and taking a few k to settle in completely it's a proper bit of kit. Launches very easily now, handles the power with no worries at all.
I warned him not to go with a SMF set up as I had heard bad reports (Sachs set up) about it being loud and not being able to change gear quickly at high revs. But the Spec set up is very much recommended in my eyes.  :happy2:

Offline Dandan

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Re: Sach clutch fitted but....
« Reply #68 on: July 08, 2010, 07:43:25 am »
Sorry for the noobish question:

I resently bought a 2005 mk5 GTI 2.0 TFSI and now thinking about remapping. My 2 choises are:

1.REVO (price.730€ inc. errorcode readings, installation and setting up(Boost 6, Timing 5 ja Fuel 9)

2.Local shop's remap price. 440€ (+45hp +80nM) inc. dyno runs before and after. (http://vtechtuning.co.uk/) <-- their Finland unit.

Trying to read every post about tuning in 2 days and have picked up alot of new information for me. However the clutch upgrading issue was pretty shocking to me  :scared: Do I really need to worry about having to spend 1k+ on a new clutch after just first stage? Before reading this I was under the impression that Stage 1 was perfectly safe with 100% stock parts.
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Offline john_o

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Re: Sach clutch fitted but....
« Reply #69 on: July 08, 2010, 08:17:07 am »
Theres no 100% when tuning Im afraid. I assume you are manual ?
Depends how many miles and how your car has been treated to some extent, along with the remap (amount of gain ,plus graph of delivery)
Any decent remap will give you good bhp/torque gains (torque especially which kills clutches/flywheels)
Most later cars seem to get away better with a stage 1 (either due to age or improved clutch parts)
Theres also a difference K03 GTI vs K04 Edition 30
The K04 cars tend to remap to higher values and therefore tend to have more issues sooner.
for your car its a K03 (lower low rpm torque hit , easier on clutch) , but its 2005 , so you may have an earlier version as well as many more miles (?)

consider it all as a matched set , flywheel / clutch plate / pressure plate / release bearing.
If one part is marginal or a weak link , youre going to get clutch slip.

I say talk to your tuner about it , but get the remap and budget for a clutch in the future just in case.
Also you want to consider 'respecting the clutch' once remapped , so no low rpm pulls (try and change down first) , no traffic light grand prixs etc, these may prolong its life.

Its a 2005 car , so you may also want to consider suspension/bushings as any power increase is going to highlight any age related weaknesses.


In remap terms, REVO is tried and tested but given you are in Finland support may be an issue?

The local shop remap, is it their own map ? or have they bought it in?
normally on this forum we would say , stay away from 'custom' remaps. But you may find its a well known name under the covers.
Anyone else had the remap locally that you can talk to?
They may be better for aftersales care and support if you hit issues.

Id say just go for it , dont worry too much about the what if's, if it breaks you'll have to fix it  :happy2:
Drive it to enjoy it  :pomppomp:



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Offline Dandan

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Re: Sach clutch fitted but....
« Reply #70 on: July 09, 2010, 06:36:55 am »
Yes, I do drive a manual and she has done around 67 000 (very low milage in Finland since we do not sit in traffic so much as people in the UK might. The avarage for a 2005 car in here is around 100-150k). Overall the car seems to be in a very good condition. K03 upgrades around 40-50hp and 80nM mesured from the engine in stage 1? so that'd be like ~245hp?

The problem Im having with the REVO dealer is that his package only included reading errorcodes, installation and the basic setup. What I've red here many have recommended that every remap should be done to match the car perfectly since not every engine is the same?

The local shop offers dyno runs before and after (and they change the maps to stock in case you're taking your car to service). So the service seems a bit better. The company is called http://vtechtuning.co.uk/ so they should have some shops in the UK too? Has anyone here used their maps?

A little offtopic question: can you change the REVO chip back to stock by yourself without having to visit the shop to do it for you?

I'm also currently looking to buy a set of lowering springs (Main reason for getting em at this point is for the looks). Im very close to ordering. Just dont quite know if I want to lower my car with 20mm or 30mm tho the 30mm seems more tempting at the moment.

Thanks for the precious tips John_O

-Dan
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Offline dbcperformance

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Re: Sach clutch fitted but....
« Reply #71 on: July 20, 2010, 06:57:33 am »
Can anybody confirm how much does the Sachs SMF weight? If it is LWFW (light weight flywheel), some chatter and noises are normal. If it is the same OE weight, the SMF conversion is the best thing that can happen to a VW. Trust me on this folks.

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Offline danishmkvgti

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Re: Sach clutch fitted but....
« Reply #72 on: July 20, 2010, 01:35:06 pm »
Can anybody confirm how much does the Sachs SMF weight? If it is LWFW (light weight flywheel), some chatter and noises are normal. If it is the same OE weight, the SMF conversion is the best thing that can happen to a VW. Trust me on this folks.

-Berk

Well we took the gearbox and clutch pack out this weekend. (Sachs uprated clutch pack and SMF mentioned earlier in this tread) The SMF was not level to the clutch plate, only the outer 1/3 of the clutch plate had contact with the SMF, and as a resolt the SMF had been very hot, now i'm anxious to see what Sachs does  :surprised:

and to the above the SMF is not lightweight, still you have to accept some chatter from the transmission with this clutch setup.  :smiley:

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Offline dbcperformance

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Re: Sach clutch fitted but....
« Reply #73 on: July 20, 2010, 03:57:26 pm »
corrct, that is given with the LWFW
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Offline fuscobal

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Re: Sach clutch fitted but....
« Reply #74 on: July 21, 2010, 06:48:20 am »
OEM has like 11kg and Sachs SMF 7.4Kg if I remember right !
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