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Author Topic: Big brakes or Not  (Read 13075 times)

Offline Janner_Sy

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Re: Big brakes or Not
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2010, 08:42:10 pm »
360mm discs go under 17s. 



Offline vRS Carl

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Re: Big brakes or Not
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2010, 08:43:20 pm »
Not much room left there  :signLOL:

Hmmm that changes things a bit then.

Will have to speak to JKM about that.

Cheers Folks keep it coming

Carl :happy2:

Offline DaveB@Vagbremtechnic

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Re: Big brakes or Not
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2010, 08:50:08 pm »
As ever its all about balance, if you are going to improve/mod the engine then good sense would suggest you need to do something with the other "systems" even if that means just having them checked over!

The problem with 312's is not disc size nor pad size, its the combination and interaction of the pad/disc/caliper that ultimately leads to problems. 312 calipers are thin walled with a large surface area which leads to heat build up, OEM pads depending on supplier are normally classified as being suitable for the lower range of temps that regulation 90 provides for, 312 discs are 25mm thick which dont have much mass to absorb much heat. The general rule of thumb for disc thickness is that for every 10% increase in disc thickness you can get 40% more energy into the disc for a given temp increase.

Having spouted all that BS, it sounds like you've hit the nail on the head in that the shoe needs to fit the foot and you need a BBK like you need a hole in the head.

Might be an idea to budget for a S3/R32 setup more for peace of mind than outright performance.

The B5 RS4 setup is relatively good value, its Iron has large discs which does increase brake torque substantially and is a great solution for those with LM style lipped or multi piece wheels which dont lend themselves to bigger calipers.

Compare the 312's on your golf to say a "standard" 996 Carrera 2

Porsche Disc size 318mm (Dont forget diameter counts for nothing its radius that matters)

Porsche Pad is smaller (bigger pads dont make you stop better)

So why do Porsche stop very well?......its all about balance, they have multi piston rear calipers as well as fronts which have better "feel" characteristics than single piston setups liek your 312's. Single piston setups are cheap to produce and straightforward to make effective they dont lend themselves to good comms when approaching the limit all of which has no interest to the OP!

Found myself a guinea pig for Boxster fronts on Mk5 312's so we'll run em for 1k miles and report back, it worked well on the Mk4 with the same hydraulic numbers and should work better on the Mk5 as the rears being bigger will give a little more rear bias.

Should be a lightweight ally caliper solution without going to the frankly podgy 345mm disc with good clubman pad options for road and track that'll fit under 17's. Couple of months away though. Using 312's discs however it wont suit the biggest is best brigade

Back to the OP good for you for not getting roped into the BBK treadmill but imho you'll need to do something with the fronts because if the power is there and the road looks like fun you'll use it and might just find yourself wishing you had made some provision for some slightly better stoppers

Offline vRS Carl

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Re: Big brakes or Not
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2010, 08:09:20 am »
Thanks for all the input guys.

Having read through this it's kinda made my made up that you lot know absolutley f*ck all and just want me to spend my hard earned cash  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Just kidding. Been some excellent advice there and i will now be on the look out for a S3/R32/Cupra brake kit. Would prefer the S3 kit as it has black calipers (Who has red as i would actually prefer to keep the OEM look) but if any set comes along at a good price then i think i will be purchasing  :smiley: :smiley:

Can this be fitted by myself (bear in mind i am not very mechanically minded but have done a fair bit of stuff on my car myself) if so what tools will i need and are the Brakes just a straight swap or do they have to be barstewardsised in any way.

Again thanks for all the input and good advice

Carl :happy2:


Offline gillm

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Re: Big brakes or Not
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2010, 02:43:49 pm »
they are a straight swap and could be done in about a hour and a half inc bleeding them and stopping for a fag and coffee
west tuned gt28 @ 340hp

Offline vRS Carl

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Re: Big brakes or Not
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2010, 05:44:01 pm »
Bit less for me then as i don't smoke (except in bed  :wink:)

Carl :happy2:


Offline micky 32

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Re: Big brakes or Not
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2010, 09:42:51 pm »
Carl I have been running my KO4 for 10k now and on 312's. They are ok for road use. There is not much point changing them unless you go on track or the ring..
2008 Octavia vRS K04'd , Forge twintercooler, Evoms, Autotech uprated pump, full Milltek exhaust 324bhp on JKM's rollers ;-)

Offline vRS Carl

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Re: Big brakes or Not
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2010, 07:25:56 am »
Thanks Mickey.

I have been thinking about it more recently and just feel that the DS2500's & 312mm Discs will be fine for Road use as i don't drive like i Stole it.

Carl :happy2:




Offline fuscobal

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Re: Big brakes or Not
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2010, 02:08:37 pm »
I'm also using the R32 front brakes for quite some time and tracked them at Nurburgring last year. The pedal feel is much better that the OEM 312s but probably the cold stopping distances are about the same. The problem is when you start heating them. I have a very nice mountain road of about 40kms (somehow similar to Stelvio pass). I've been there with my OEM brakes and they never lasted more than 10kms under very hard driving. Black smoke came out, pedal became stiff...With the uprated R32 brakes + DS2500 pads, I finished the 40kms and 3 consecutive laps on Nurburgring with 0 fade. Knowing I do have quite a lot of power/torque as compared to stock, I would go even higher with the brakes but I'm afraid a small improvement over the R32 brakes would triple the costs for the brakes. Anyone tested the RS4 fronts against the R32 on mk5 GTI ? I would be curious about the differences in fade, stopping power and handling (don't know how heavy RS4 ones are compared to R32 ones). Soemthing interesting for me though was to find out that the discs from VwRacing brakes were about 2 times lighter than my R32 ones wich should mean something for handling. When my friend TEFF (present here on the forums) will install them, I'll have a run in his car and report back with the differences !
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Offline Top Cat

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Re: Big brakes or Not
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2010, 07:42:55 pm »
I'm also using the R32 front brakes for quite some time and tracked them at Nurburgring last year. The pedal feel is much better that the OEM 312s but probably the cold stopping distances are about the same. The problem is when you start heating them. I have a very nice mountain road of about 40kms (somehow similar to Stelvio pass). I've been there with my OEM brakes and they never lasted more than 10kms under very hard driving. Black smoke came out, pedal became stiff...With the uprated R32 brakes + DS2500 pads, I finished the 40kms and 3 consecutive laps on Nurburgring with 0 fade. Knowing I do have quite a lot of power/torque as compared to stock, I would go even higher with the brakes but I'm afraid a small improvement over the R32 brakes would triple the costs for the brakes. Anyone tested the RS4 fronts against the R32 on mk5 GTI ? I would be curious about the differences in fade, stopping power and handling (don't know how heavy RS4 ones are compared to R32 ones). Soemthing interesting for me though was to find out that the discs from VwRacing brakes were about 2 times lighter than my R32 ones wich should mean something for handling. When my friend TEFF (present here on the forums) will install them, I'll have a run in his car and report back with the differences !

The RS4 discs are a fair bit lighter than the R32 ones even though they are a bigger. I held them side by side and there was a clear difference in weight. The RS4 discs have alu bells.  :happy2:
I havn't tested them enough for fade yet due to our bleak winter but the actual stopping power is night and day better than the standard GTI brakes.  :love:

Offline fuscobal

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Re: Big brakes or Not
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2010, 06:18:14 pm »
What would be a propper pad to use on the Ring with these RS4 calipers ? I'm talking of course about pads that can also be driven on the way to the track (public road) without taking a ticket for squealing or hitting the car in front of you because they haven't been warmed enough ! :) . I would be also very curious about the difference in weight between R32 fronts and RS4 B5 fronts and how will this affect handling !
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Offline danishmkvgti

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Offline Top Cat

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Re: Big brakes or Not
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2010, 06:50:23 pm »
What would be a propper pad to use on the Ring with these RS4 calipers ? I'm talking of course about pads that can also be driven on the way to the track (public road) without taking a ticket for squealing or hitting the car in front of you because they haven't been warmed enough ! :) . I would be also very curious about the difference in weight between R32 fronts and RS4 B5 fronts and how will this affect handling !

This should help.  :happy2:

Very interesting set of brakes these, with Toms wheels we often joked about the BBK picking us as opposed to us picking the BBK. I'm really interested in how they do on the track as the original RS4 purists always rated them well especially when used with the correct pads.

Audi did a competition package for the RS4 which comprised drilled discs and "competition" pads (which are Pagid RS29's) see pic



There was a huge gap betweenthe 2001 B5 RS4 and the 2006 8 pot equipped RS4 B7 with little in the way of an upgrade path for B5 owners so the competion package was the way to go, theres been a plenty of track slagging in 1400kg RS4s on these brakes many of which were running a 2.7Bi turbo V6 doing a reliable 500BHP.

Anyway point of my rambling is that they come up on ebay fairly regularly and even if you have to replace the discs, then its potentially a great track proven "clubman" brake setup for potentially  way way less than 4 figures and thats even with Pagid RS pads included in that ball park price!


Probably the only 360mm setup that goes under 17's as well!!!

Offline fuscobal

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Re: Big brakes or Not
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2010, 08:57:00 pm »
Fuscobal, you should consider the S3 hubs:

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12575.0.html

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12348.0.html



Wow, this is the first time I hear about these. Are they lighter than the GTI ones ? Any other advantage ?
Mk5 GTI 6MT - Revo stage 3

Offline danishmkvgti

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Re: Big brakes or Not
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2010, 06:51:30 am »
if you go for the lower arms also which is also alloy you get a bit of camber adjust also

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