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Author Topic: Black magic Mk5 GTI track car  (Read 97838 times)

Offline fuscobal

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Re: Black magic Mk5 GTI
« Reply #75 on: December 30, 2011, 12:27:20 pm »
Damn, that's a great price. Isn't that hood the same that Bildon sells in US for 1800$ (GFK - street approved) and 2500$ (CFK) ?
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Offline the bruce

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Re: Black magic Mk5 GTI
« Reply #76 on: December 30, 2011, 01:15:53 pm »
Yes, fwik Bildon sells the same genuine VWM parts made by Becker.
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Offline fuscobal

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Re: Black magic Mk5 GTI
« Reply #77 on: December 30, 2011, 01:51:33 pm »
I wonder what would be the difference in weight between the CFK and GFK ? I suppose the CFK (race version) wich is more expensive has 4kg (as VW racing advises) and the other one is a little bit heavier !?
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Offline danishmkvgti

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Re: Black magic Mk5 GTI
« Reply #78 on: December 30, 2011, 01:56:26 pm »
Fuscobal, VWRacing UK does not do the 4kg CF hood anymore i'm afraid :sad1:  :fighting:

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Offline fuscobal

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Re: Black magic Mk5 GTI
« Reply #79 on: December 30, 2011, 02:05:58 pm »
So I've heard but maybe if its the same as VW motorsport and bildon, they will find some forgoten somewhere that did not sell before replacing the racing Golf 5 with the Golf 6 !
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Offline the bruce

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Re: Black magic Mk5 GTI
« Reply #80 on: December 30, 2011, 04:28:00 pm »
Give them a call !!  :wink:
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Offline DonalM

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Re: Black magic Mk5 GTI
« Reply #81 on: December 30, 2011, 06:28:54 pm »
What was the price of the hood Bruce ? Donal, I got them second hand at half price. One of them was new, the other was on a car for like a month so very good deal !

You hardly want to sell them on again to me for the same price.  :signLOL:
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Offline fuscobal

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Re: Black magic Mk5 GTI
« Reply #82 on: December 30, 2011, 11:34:05 pm »
rex spoke with vwm on email and they just said they don't sell parts (wich was to be expected) but they didn't reply when asked to provide a seller in Europe (besides Bildon who's in US). Seibon makes the closest looking hood to vwm but it's much heavier and costs 750Euro + shipping ! Don't know how good it's quality is compared to vwm but they should both provide better engine cooling and air flow through radiators. The other hoods on the market with vents closer to the windshield where air pressure builds are just wrong as they will not let the air out > http://autospeed.com.au/cms/gallery/article.html?slideshow=0&a=2455&i=4

http://www.seiboncarbon.com/products/carbon-fiber/hoods/HD0607VWGTI-DV/
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Offline the bruce

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Re: Black magic Mk5 GTI
« Reply #83 on: December 31, 2011, 01:58:15 am »
.... they should both provide better engine cooling and air flow through radiators. The other hoods on the market with vents closer to the windshield where air pressure builds are just wrong as they will not let the air out


You are right !!  :happy2:
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Offline danishmkvgti

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Re: Black magic Mk5 GTI
« Reply #84 on: December 31, 2011, 05:28:27 am »
rex spoke with vwm on email and they just said they don't sell parts (wich was to be expected) but they didn't reply when asked to provide a seller in Europe (besides Bildon who's in US). Seibon makes the closest looking hood to vwm but it's much heavier and costs 750Euro + shipping ! Don't know how good it's quality is compared to vwm but they should both provide better engine cooling and air flow through radiators. The other hoods on the market with vents closer to the windshield where air pressure builds are just wrong as they will not let the air out > http://autospeed.com.au/cms/gallery/article.html?slideshow=0&a=2455&i=4

http://www.seiboncarbon.com/products/carbon-fiber/hoods/HD0607VWGTI-DV/

You haven't considered Osir??  :happy2:

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Offline fuscobal

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Re: Black magic Mk5 GTI
« Reply #85 on: December 31, 2011, 09:44:06 am »
Osir told me their bonnet is under 7kg wich is very good compared to Seibon but the vent is in the wrong position and the price is also much higher than Seibon + bringing it from US would add 50% to theprice from shipping and taxes !
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Offline phrozen

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Re: Black magic Mk5 GTI
« Reply #86 on: January 01, 2012, 01:56:22 am »
loving the audio!!

are the mids in the door cards sealed or venting into the door??

Offline fuscobal

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Re: Black magic Mk5 GTI
« Reply #87 on: January 01, 2012, 06:20:25 pm »
The mids are on the dash. The midbasses are venting into the door because the Microprecision 7 are infinite baffle drivers. A sealed enclosure for 2 x 16.5 drivers would need a volume that cannot be obtained inside a door (I mean the door has the volume but it's impossible to seal it as you have the windows and water that has to drain on the lower part of the door) !

This is what Osir offers right now > http://www.osirusa.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=VGTI-CFHGT1-DCF&Category_Code=VJETEB

I'm a bit confused as of wich one is the lightest of all, wich one can be painted and does the vented one have any real benefit of cooling the turbo knowing there is positive pressure on that area pushing the hot air back (not allowing it to exit from under the hood) ?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2012, 06:39:29 pm by fuscobal »
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Offline fuscobal

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Re: Black magic Mk5 GTI
« Reply #88 on: January 02, 2012, 09:17:03 am »
Ok, found some info that I've missed before > http://www.osirdesign.com.au/GTI_CFH.htm

CFH GT1 and CFH GT2 offers 2 versions, single sided and double sided

CFH GT1 and CFH GT2 uses special reenforce compound coating which can withstand high pressures

This special coating keeps your hood in shape all the time

CFH GT1 and CFH GT2 lets you use the factory latch and hood stand with no modifications needed

Factory hood weight  13.6kg

CFH GT1 and CFH GT2 Single side (carbon out only) weight less than 7kg

CFH GT1 and CFH GT2 Double sides (carbon inside out) weight less than 8kg Looks good even the hood is opened


Knowing the weight is my main purpose, the single sided wich is much cheaper and a little lighter also would be my main bet. Now...can it be painted black and would be any real benefit to buy the vented one (same price vented or OEM like) ?

Yesterday I've removed the rear seat belts assemby wich was a 2Kg saving



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« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 08:17:04 pm by fuscobal »
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Offline fuscobal

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Re: Black magic Mk5 GTI
« Reply #89 on: January 07, 2012, 08:51:30 pm »
Because I got bored today, I made some aerodynamic calculations for the Hungaroring track today :

- Car's weight > m = 1450Kg
- Car weight + downforce > N = 1520Kg (OEM car has 0kg front@160kmh and -20kg rear@160kmh. I've considered an addition of 20kg front brought by an air dam/splitter and 70kg rear from an 1400mm span wing with 225mm width and 10deg AOA. On the rear I've substracted the 20kg lift of the OEM car from the 70kg addition brought by the wing so I've got about 50kg left. The wing considered was the Reverie 225mm wich is a moderate downforce wing (wouldn't want something too big wich would hurt the car's look or bring too much rear downforce wich may cause front lift). N@160kmh resulted by adding the downforce to the car's weight, so 1450+20+50 = 1520kg, from wich only1450kg will generate inertia and centrifugal force.
- Hungaroring length> 4381m
- Hungaroring cornering length> 675m (15 turns)
- medium cornering radius R = 55.5m
- Friction coeff between semislick and asphalt > u = 1.2 (Don't have an exact value so this is an approximation. However, even with a different value, the difference would remain because it would appear in both formulas and deduct itself)

The car's equilibrium at the limit would be Fn = Ff

Fn = u * N (for OEM car N1 = m = 1450kg, for the car with downforce addition, N2 = 1520kg)

Ff = m * V^2 / R

In the 2 situations, the car's speed on a circle with 55.5m radius would be :

1) OEM car > v1 = sqrt(Fn1 * R / m) = 8.161m/s^2
2) Aerodynamically enhanced car > v2 = sqrt(Fn2 * R / m) = 8.356m/s^2

Knowing the cornering total distance of the track is  L = 675m, at the 2 speeds, this would be driven in t1 = 82.71s by the OEM car and in t2 = 80.78s by the aerodynamically enhanced vehicle. From here, we can see there's a 1.93sec improvement in lap time wich is not negligeable at all.

Considerations :

1) The cornering length and medium radius were taken from a database but for accurate calculations each corner would have to be accounted separately with its radius and arc length. I supposed the car is spinning inside a 55.5m radius circle for a distance of 675m
2) The aerodynamics of the stock car was approximated from Bruce's post on ''improving aerodynamics with OEM parts'' topic !
3) I did'n consider my car's riding height wich is probably about 30mm lower than OEM. Normally this should bring extra downforce by increasing the undercar air speed and decreasing pressure but as I don't have any data, I can't approximate the addition
4) I didn't also account for the chassis body roll and different tire loads.
5) I didn't take into account the effect of the greater corner exit speed on straights wich would bring time improvement on straights also (maybe another 1sec even !!!)

To follow :

- 30mm wider Kerscher wings > maybe 1-2kg weight reduction being they are ABS as opposed to iron sheet
- Odyssey ER40 deep-cycle > - 15Kg
- Carbon Osir hood > -7Kg
- VwRacing air dam > +2Kg (don't actually know the difference between the OEm one and this)
- Rear carbon wing > +3Kg (same as above)
- Maybe another set of fixed Recaro sidemounts for track days (or custom made ones) wich will replace the sliding rails > - 12-14Kg

« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 08:57:24 pm by fuscobal »
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