All Things Mk5 > Members Rides
Very budget track build
pudding:
--- Quote from: GVK on July 07, 2023, 10:26:24 pm ---Yeah, he did stack it at the 'ring a couple of months ago but it's all back up and running, he was there for the 'ring meisters track days this week.
500bhp in a mk2 Golf is going to be quick but just look how a GT4RS pulls away!
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Yeah the Pinderwagen runs out of gearing. He never loses sight of it though, so kudos to him and his car :happy2: I bet the GT4 driver was thinking what the hell is that old thing keeping up with me in the more technical corners :grin: Well driven Porsches are something else though. Ballistic!
Clarkj93:
--- Quote from: Pudding on July 07, 2023, 11:38:37 pm ---
--- Quote from: Clarkj93 on June 20, 2023, 08:32:28 am ---
--- Quote from: Pudding on June 16, 2023, 08:46:14 pm ---Some interesting reading there! I remember AmD very well from back in the day (90s, early 2000s), when it was Geoff Everett (who sadly passed away) and a couple of other guys. They were the VAG engine mapping & tuning pioneers, and also race car setup :happy2: They are not to be confused with the current 'AmD Essex' or 'AmD Tuning' who are nothing like what AmD used to be. I'm not sure how many times they've changed hands, but in the 2010 era, they weren't particularly good.
Aero plays a massive part. Ever noticed how MK5s feel a bit sketchy and vague well past 100? Lowering and stiffening helps, and also removing the stock rake, but they're just not that great aerodynamically. Too much underbody lift. Maybe underbody some aero parts from the A3 might help? All those plastic winglet things on the wishbones and full underbelly covers front and rear. The front end air flow is a big factor also as you say, hence why the race cars angle the radiator stack at 45 degrees or more and airflow passthrough the bonnet instead of allowing it flow through into the engine bay, which is massive drag :happy2:
All those wings, splitters and louvred wings we laugh at on road cars, yeah, those things really help on race/track cars :happy2: Have you seen that crazy MK2 16v Turbo on Misha Charoudin's YouTube channel? That thing was covered in DIY bodgey looking aero, but it was fast as fook round the ring because of it!
Powder coating looks great. Yeah the HPFP followers don't wear out if you keep on top of oil the maintenance, and it's generally only those stupidly stiff HPFPs from Loba and APR that chew though followers. That's why I liked the VIS internals as it uses the stock spring :happy2:
What I would also say is focus on yourself as a driver as well as preparing the car. You probably won't remember Maurice Reeves. He was famous for blasting round Castle Coombe in his pretty simple MK2 track car, whac ich beat dozens of much more powerful and sophisticated cars. It was purely down to driver skill and the right mods :happy2:
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How is the bimmer going then? still taking it apart all the time like the ed30? Miss it at all?
Its the process of de-gassing the air con put me off doing it myself originally, but I may have another go.
A wavetrac diff is high up on my want list for sure, I think it will find easily a couple seconds per lap in its current form.
Interesting about the r32 battery setup, never thought to do it that way but you're right its all available used.
I didn't know that avout AmD, assumed it was the same firm they just abandoned that motorsport side of things.
Yeah I've found the rear feeling light and unpredictable in high speed turns occasionally, I've blamed it on other things in the past but it could be rear lift as the rear is super draggy. Yeah those "winglets" and bits and bobs would be interesting, I would like to see if I can construct a flat floor out of cardboard for the rear first of all and attach seecurely with full suspension movement, if so I can make a very thing aluminium one or just go with the off the shelf stuff which must do something. Yeah I would love a tcr style intercool/rad ducted to a bonnet vent, should be a massive difference in cooling.
Yeah I mean, when you see the tcr cars with aero or any club racing car with huge budgets (like Darkside and Area motorsport) they look great but anything home made half the time looks sh*t :grin: but cannot deny it works. Yes I know very well that mk2 you're talking about.
Yeah you're absolutely right on the driving, but something I'm on top of. I've done a bit of karting with some success in the past and I've probably put in about 6 or so hours per week on my sim setup for the past 3 years, I race with a league now which is made up of enthusiasts/couple of club racers and 1 or 2 pro drivers which has seen the biggest improvement for my driving by far as you push to find tiny amounts of time you wouldn't look for if you're just practicing on your own. I'm also a Ross Bentley super fan, the blokes a spewing enclyopedia of what is usually unavailable information on driving and racing.
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Apart from it getting covered in seagull sh1t every other day (I work by the coast) yeah it's OK :grin: The dirty b@stards even shat on the door handle :grin: I can't really do much to it as it's still in warranty, so no remaps, coilovers, M3 chassis parts or any of that goodness until it hits 100K, boooooo!
It does get the same ridiculous 3K oil change treatment as the ED30 though :grin:
Yeah I do miss the ED30's handling and performance. I've always felt MK5s are greater than the sum of their parts. They're so fluid through the twisties and punchy. But for now I need a cruise wagon to eat up the 400 mile a week commute. 50mpg and a smooth auto is more palatable than the ED30's mid 20s and heavy Helix clutch :grin:
Is it an environmental responsibility thing that puts you off degassing the AC? I must confess, I just dumped it out to atmosphere on an older car in my more reckless days :doh: :grin:
Yeah the wavetrac will definitely help. Even on public roads, the unloaded wheel used to spin like crazy on roundabouts, in the dry, and not even going at it that hard tbh. It was on my to-do list. The MK6 XDS ABS upgrade was also up there on my must have mods as it works up to 65mph iirc. The MK5s much weaker TC only works up to 30mph iirc. That in combination with the wavetrac would be great!
Yeah the only issue with R32 battery cubby hole is the GTI exhaust gets in the way, which is why R32s have a much shorter rear silencer, but it's doable with a different silencer. It's a better solution than just bunging it in the boot with a generic bracket as the R32 sits the battery really low for good centre of gravity.
Yeah that was also my complaint about the rear end. It felt too vague and floaty at speed. I think some of it is due to a lack of weight back there. The car always handled better with a full tank versus 1/4 full. The Eibach arbs definitely helped with that though, and also getting the spring/damper rates dialled in, which is the tricky bit!
Good stuff :happy2: Even simple things like supportive seats and seating position can help. I tend to slouch in the seat too much, which is really bad for car control. If I sit more upright and pull the wheel closer to my chest, it makes a massive difference. I don't know if you've seen any Chris Harris videos. Kind of like that really. He sits super low, but has the steering wheel as far out as it will go, like he's almost hugging it :grin:
You got the MQB wishbone cover deflectory things then :happy2: Castle Combe is a decent track. You'll have fun there :happy2:
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Wow that is something :grin:
yeah I do think the mk5 chassis is great, there is a reason you see so many mk5 platform cars doing well in club racing, MQB platforms being even more successful probably having a slightly better chassis I would guess tied in with the EA888, seems like its so easy to squeeze big power out of them!
ah well I pretend to have an environment responsibility when in the office I would say but really I don't care :grin: I just thought if I dumped it on my drive it would be dramatic e.g make a big bang, lots of smoke and you never know how clocked on that nosy neighbour is across the street... if its a silent unnoticeable process then too right I'll be doing it that way!
only up to 30mph? just there to help teenagers launch at the lights is it :grin:?
yeah will do a post on it soon but for sure you can notice lift on rear at higher speed, as rotating the car at high speed is super easy but low speed the rear feels too planted so negating the lift with a stiffer/more aggressive rear end.
Clarkj93:
Back from Combe, great day!
Tested out various tyre pressures:
33 - grip very spikey
32 - good grip but times when it did feel spikey e.g low speed or making a small mistake and it reacts dramatically
31/31.5 - good grip, quite balanced
30 - felt great, didn't feel super quicker than 31/32 but balance was way more neutral and tyres felt like they could last longer before going off
So 30 sounds like ideal on AR-1's and probably any 100-200 treadwear tyres.. which is what retro resus told me before but thought I'd find out for myself.
I've come across the idea of "scale factor" in terms of tyre pressures, its a way to set hot and cold pressures to get the exact correct pressures every time. So after reliably getting 30 hot, I'll take a cold reading with the tyres in the shade after they have completely cooled, then divide hot by cold and you get a scale factor, you record the scale factor along with the ambient temperature so it means next time you turn up to the same circuit you can see the scale factor and get it right first time, second time worst case rather than having to keep an eye on it constantly. Each ambient 1 degree is worth 0.1 psi so the scale factors I took were:
@27.5 degrees ambient
FL = 1.33 (22.5)
FR = 1.27 (23.5)
RL = 1.2 (25)
RR = 1.11 (27)
So next time I'm there if the ambient temp is say 20 degrees ambient i would set cold to:
FL = 1.33 (23.2 ~24)
FR = 1.27 (24.2 ~ 24)
RL = 1.2 (25.7 ~25.5)
RR = 1.11 (27.7 ~27.5)
Nice to have that recorded, I do think tyres are something overlooked a lot of the time, they're very delicate things and definitely need some thought to get them working well.
The front ARB was on full soft and the front was washing out quite a lot and rolling more than I'd like.. going from full soft to full hard added quite a lot of front grip and stability too. There is some "man maths" logic out there that you should only get a stiffer rear arb and keep an oem/super soft or no front arb but this isn't true at all, if the car rolls a little too much on front then stiffening the front should add more front grip not take away.
Recorded temps a couple of times, not every time but if these are not the highest settings then I imagine they are very close to these:
Intake temp: 60 on idle, 38-40 when running
Coolant: 99
Oil: 122
Brake caliper - 195
So Oil and coolant within my target but close to borderline, not giving much more wiggle room, also only running on map 2 ~220bhp all day which may see lower temps. I'm not overly worried as that big ugly AC condenser is surely blocking some clean airflow to the rad and intercooler. Worst case I can always add some bonnet vents to get some hot air out, I do like the middle tcr vents but I think you need some exhaust venting from the IC and rad to get the most out of this and that requires some very clever fab work so.... maybe I will 1 day maybe I won't.
Brakes held up though! Lack of weight, bigger caliper/pads/discs along with some better air flow has paid off, though the golf r calipers do not modulate well I got to say. What I mean is if a braking zone is downhill, and you unbalance the car by going 100% so you want to apply only 80% of the brakes to keep the car balanced then it does not feel like you have 80% of braking power, it feels about 50%! It is manageable but not ideal, not sure its worth the weight saving over the r32 setup because of that modulation issue. It also does not like much trail braking at the mo, probably because right now its super nose heavy having an empty rear.
For anyone who's never been to Combe, a great part of it is its probably the nicest part of england being on the edge of the cotswolds, so 3 minutes down the road you have beautiful scenic gastro pubs. Even my Mrs likes coming here because of that factor :grin: Its a great excuse for weekend away.
Just to sum up, the car was rapid all day, obviously driver experience plays an enormous part but still going to take the pride in it seemingly being one of the quicker cars lapping all day. Really makes me want to get it running on map 5(273bhp) with a wavetrac diff and more camber, it should fly.
Clarkj93:
Before Combe i forgot to mention I tidied up the brake duct intake, it was mounted on a slant so popping it in the fog light hole instead will be far better for air flow with the bell mouth duct facing straight ahead in a high pressure zone.
Easy to install just needs some big strong cable ties and its solid. No real need for 3d printed solutions if you don't mind a very much not oem finish to it.
Throttle body has been playing up again lately, every now and then the car will cut out when its first started or start to idle really really rough if left to idle for too long. Did a bit of research recently and as far as I can tell the mk7 Golf R throttle body is just a later revision that is interchangeable, the Q revision is the one I've got on now from a 2012 TT. From what I can tell, the T revision seems to be a reliable unit unlike the ones fitted to the mk5 platform cars that seem to die often at the age they are now so I snagged one from a 2016 golf r for 30 odd quid, worth a punt I thought, not fitted yet but I'm certain it will be a like-for-like replacement.
Started messing around with linear springs again! Lots of sanding down and odd adaptors and I'm close to working out how it will fit while getting the ideal ride heights. As well as the obvious benefits, there is also quite a significant unsprung weight saving, roughly 3-4kg total saving which is about 0.8kg - 1.05kg unsprung weight saving on each front corner and about 0.6kg - 0.85kg on each rear corner. I'm going to mount 450lb/in (8kg/mm) all around and check how the dampers feel with some road testing and go from there.
Here is something cool I came across the other day, reversing adjustable top mounts left-to-right and vice versa to increase castor.
I've got the compbrake solid top mounts in the shed so did some quick calculations, the compbrake top mounts have 30 holes to mount them and can be mounted in any orientation so there is quite a lot of freedom. So mounting them so the adjustment goes forward-to-backwards allows for 0 extra camber, but the top of the shock can be mounted up to 18mm further back which should be quite a substantial increase of castor. A good compromise would be to mount them somewhere in between which will still allow for half the total amount of camber possible along with pushing the shock a further 9mm backwards which should still be a decent castor improvement. For now I'm just going to mount them normally so no castor increase to ascertain initially how much camber I can achieve and then I can add additional castor this way if I'm not maxed out on the camber adjustment of the top mount. Camber I'm aiming for is roughly -3.5 degrees.
To top it off, here are some cool snaps at Combe the other day
pudding:
--- Quote from: Clarkj93 on July 08, 2023, 09:06:15 am ---Wow that is something :grin:
yeah I do think the mk5 chassis is great, there is a reason you see so many mk5 platform cars doing well in club racing, MQB platforms being even more successful probably having a slightly better chassis I would guess tied in with the EA888, seems like its so easy to squeeze big power out of them!
ah well I pretend to have an environment responsibility when in the office I would say but really I don't care :grin: I just thought if I dumped it on my drive it would be dramatic e.g make a big bang, lots of smoke and you never know how clocked on that nosy neighbour is across the street... if its a silent unnoticeable process then too right I'll be doing it that way!
only up to 30mph? just there to help teenagers launch at the lights is it :grin:?
yeah will do a post on it soon but for sure you can notice lift on rear at higher speed, as rotating the car at high speed is super easy but low speed the rear feels too planted so negating the lift with a stiffer/more aggressive rear end.
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The MK5 has a decently stiff body shell on it's side :happy2:
Weirdly the MQB platform went back to MK4 Golf front wishbones in a steel subframe, which is considerably cheaper to manufacture than the MK5's alloy subframe and console bush goodness, and not as stiff. It always boils down to the bottom line, but binning off gas struts on the MK8's bonnet is a step too far in that regard :grin:
The MQBs rear end is pretty much identical to the MK5's in terms of basic layout, but they probably messed with the motion ratio, roll centre and ARB rates to get it turn in a bit keener and flatter :happy2: MQBs also have variable ratio steering racks, which makes a huge difference in the tighter turns. They're decent cars but somehow feel dull to drive compared to the 5.
Nah, it just makes a leaking air noise for a short while and it's over. No dramatic bangs or whooshes :grin: Just don't breathe in too deeply around the area :grin:
Yeah its totally lame! I think the kids care more about pops and bangs than traction these days :grin:
It's mega tricky getting the car to behave how you want it to at all speeds, but you'll get there :happy2:
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