All Things Mk5 > Members Rides
Very budget track build
Clarkj93:
--- Quote from: Pudding on September 01, 2023, 11:59:09 pm ---
--- Quote from: Clarkj93 on September 01, 2023, 11:19:22 pm ---Not done much lately, getting married Sunday :phew: so even I've struggled to escape to the golf :grin:
So the heat shield to cover the bulkhead is a pain to remove and re-install so I just cut the thing up and bent some embossed stuff over it instead. I had to import this stuff from China as could not find anyone in UK who would sell it for a reasonable price which I thought was super strange as its quite a common material in modern cars :stupid:
Added a little spare stuff over the IAT sensor, I heard before that they can heat soak and read higher temps because of it than the actual air that is in the intake, when I get around to it I'll see if I can put that theory to the test:
Now on 6 inch 550 pound spring up front (roughly 10kg/mm), not test driven yet but I'm pretty sure after so many calculations that we'll end up with a just a stiffer linear setup and the rebound should still be OK with this spring. Using a 7 inch 450 on rear which is the same sort of thing, linear and a little stiffer.
Bought a cheap little camber guage, you have to calibrate it everytime you use it and it does un-calibrate itself which just a single violent shake so got to be very careful using it but I just wanted to see how much camber I was roughly getting with the top mounts and if I could adjust them to still hit my target of -3.5 up front but with a bit more castor by rotating the top mount to move the strut rearwards. But.... when setting the camber at max both sides on the front it showed 2 degrees on the left and 5 degrees on the right? I think possibly the floor was not perfectly level (it was by eye though) and the subframe might be in some really weird position so I'm just going to try and get the subframe in a happy position for now and set the front camber to -3.5 via a trusted shop and if there is plenty of room left in the camber aligning area then I'll know next time I can add more castor.
Some pics of the bumper trim, like a minute amount less drag and I'm usually not one for the aesthetics and more about function over everything else but I think its looks cool in person more than anything :grin:
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Ah good for you mate and best wishes for the day :happy2: Not something I've ever fancied doing tbh, much to my girlfriend's disgust :grin:
Yeah that stuff costs a fortune over here for some reason. It's just stamped aluminium sheet :stupid:
The intake sensor does indeed heat soak because of where it is, but on the move it sorts itself out quickly. It's just at idle sitting in traffic it gives a high reading. If you have VCDS running, you will see it drop right down if you crack the throttle open to get some fresh air through it. More importantly, the reading isn't the intercooler temp....it's just the heat of being right next to the cylinder head and low airflow when the throttle is closed.
Interested to hear how the stiffer springs work out. 400lb front and 350/400 rear is fairy common on most coilovers as a starting point, so 550 isn't massively stiffer. A lot of folk run the same stiffness front and rear because the rear springs being inboard behave differently.....aka 'motion ratio' but it's all good experimenting :happy2: Are your dampers up to that level of extra stiffness? I fitted stiffer Eibachs to my Ohlins and it was a bit too bouncy for my tastes as the dampers weren't up to it, even at max stiffness. Stiffer springs keep the car flatter in the corners though, so you don't need massive ARBs.
Have you got a deadset kit fitted to your subframe? That usually helps iron out camber discrepancies. Most of them have more camber on one side from the factory! Mine was stock -0.55 on one side, and -1.2 on the other side on it's standard suspension. Shoddy! Even with SuperPro ball joints, the best I could achieve was -1.2 and -1.5. One BJ was fully in and other fully out to get that. They're not the best cars for alignment! So long as the toe and caster are the same, it doesn't really matter too much.
The rear end looks pretty cool actually :happy2:
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Thanks!
Oh that's real interesting about the throttle open to reduce the reading! That is something I would like to experiment with for sure.
Yeah so I measured the second rate of the bilstein springs as 480 front and 370 rear so kinda just copying the same balance front to rear and staying within a safe tolerance. More worried about the front as it does roll still more than I'd like at the front even with a bigger arb in the mid turn and when hard on the brakes. I was speaking to Julian at balance motorsport recently who basically told me if you're subtle on the stiffness increase your okay but if its substantially stiffer springs you should re valve, he did recommend just buying new coilovers though if going way stiffer as if your getting Bilstein to re valve it would probably be best to shorter the damper and possibly add adjustment and add that point it's the cost of a set of off the shelf or custom gaz coilovers anyway.
No never noticed that subframe walk issue really, I've always wondered too as the dead set kits add plain metal on top of the subframe alloy which has load of grooves in it to grip into the shell but is then covered so in my untrained mind feels like your possibly more likely to loose your alignment?
That is a bit rubbish to be fair, I've toyed with the idea of string aligning myself but nah... It's so much effort into it on jack stands and so easy to read stuff wrong unless you have pricey equipment. I've got some basic toe plates turning up soon but that's just so I can get the car driving straight to take it to a trusted shop for a proper alignment rather than getting kwik fit to do it every time for £60 just so I cna safely drive to have a proper alignment afterwards :stupid:
pudding:
Yeah, I remember when I fitted the S3 intercooler to mine and I was seeing 50+ intake temps sat in traffic, I thought WTF is this all about? What a waste of money :grin: Then I tapped the throttle and it dropped to about 30 instantly :grin: Even lower on the move. With that IC the temps were always around 10 above atmosphere in summer, and 5-7 over winter. Just have to ignore the low speed readings as it's false reporting :happy2:
Julian is a legend! I think he's written a book! I remember when he first setup his business he would chat on the phone for ages, going into detail and explaining the fundamentals :happy2: He custom spec'd a set of Gaz Gold for my Corrado back in the day. It was for road use only, so he spec'd much softer springs than I would have chosen myself.....325lb front, 225lb rear, but man did it ride and handle well :happy2: Just feed him the axle weights and the car's intended purpose, and he comes up with the goods. Interestingly enough, the only reason the MK7 Clubsport broke the ring record (at the time) was because of it's softer 'ring mode' suspension setting. Interesting. Maybe stiff isn't always the way :thinking: Logically speaking, if the suspension is soft enough to absorb bumps at high speed but stiff enough to prop the car up, it deflects the body shell less, which improves stability and consistency. That is the problem with going too stiff, it can jog the car around too much, unsettling it mid corner....but it depends how bumpy the track is I suppose.
The Ohlins and Gaz Gold are the best coilovers I've ever owned, and both were on the softer side of the norm. Neither lasted long though unfortunately, but I think Gaz have sorted their quality issues now. Gaz are ex Leda, who were a top brand back in the day :happy2:
When it boils down to it, damper quality is the key. If they are top notch, you can afford to back the spring rate off a bit. The temptation is to eradicate all body roll completely, but a bit of roll can be advantageous in some situations. It's all about slip angles and other complex stuff I can't get my head around :grin:
Anyway, I would 100% take advice from the ledge Julian :happy2:
The deadsets are collars to take up the difference in the subframe holes being much bigger than the bolt diameter, which locks it into place and it cannot move. I tried the VAG fix with stiffer bolts and the toothed washers but the subframe still moved. With the collars, the steering feel and alignment were waaaaay more consistent in hard cornering. Without the collars, the movement was so bad, my steering wheel was a few degrees off centre after slinging it hard into a bend :grin: And then do the same thing in the next corner, and it would move the opposite way! Consistency is important on hard track work.
Getting it close with string or camber gauges is fine to get you somewhere. 4 wheel alignments aren't cheap and annoying if you have to keep doing them with every suspension tweak!
Clarkj93:
Yeah tend to see 60 on idle but drops to 40 very quickly when moving. That's really interesting.
Yeah got his book, I think if you just tell him you liked his book he will help you out with anything you want :grin:
Didn't know that clubsport went softer... Thought they'd have gone stiffer but not driven a mk7 maybe they're quite stiff from factory anyway. I just chose on stiffer as I know all the mk5 race cars are running much higher rates, when it's time to upgrade dampers I'd like to take time in measuring corner weights and unspring mass and roll centres etc. There are a few hard to find guides about on the Web that show how to precisely pick the correct rates for maximum grip/balance and surface.
Youve convinced me on the dead set kit.... Looking around I think the tyrol one looks best design being a tougher material and the lower washers having a ridge to stop the bolt head from being able to dislodge.
pudding:
Yeah it's just the valve overlap heating up the intake, perfectly normal. That is also why catch cans and PCV deletes are pointless. Exhaust reversion carbons up the intake valves regardless.
:grin: Ask him about his old Peugeot 205 gti next time you speak to him. It had a rear mounted turbo on it! I think it was on that car he cut his teeth on suspension tuning :happy2:
Yeah the ring is a bumpy track by all accounts. Never been, but in the onboard videos online, it certainly looks bumpy! So backing off the damping in 'ring mode' helps with stability at speed. When I was messing with mine, roll centre was the single most important thing to get right, but I just lacked the funds and inclination to investigate TTRS knuckles. If that approach isn't affordable, then stiffer springs it has to be unfortunately!
The Tyrol kit was very good. Not the cheapest but it certainly did the job. The only snag with very precise subframe location is it makes subframe refitment trickier if it ever has to come down again. Lots of fenangling with precise angles etc but it's doable. But on the flip side, the geometry doesn't change as it all goes back exactly where it was, unlike the stock sloppy fitment :happy2:
Clarkj93:
--- Quote from: Pudding on September 09, 2023, 12:14:18 pm ---Yeah it's just the valve overlap heating up the intake, perfectly normal. That is also why catch cans and PCV deletes are pointless. Exhaust reversion carbons up the intake valves regardless.
:grin: Ask him about his old Peugeot 205 gti next time you speak to him. It had a rear mounted turbo on it! I think it was on that car he cut his teeth on suspension tuning :happy2:
Yeah the ring is a bumpy track by all accounts. Never been, but in the onboard videos online, it certainly looks bumpy! So backing off the damping in 'ring mode' helps with stability at speed. When I was messing with mine, roll centre was the single most important thing to get right, but I just lacked the funds and inclination to investigate TTRS knuckles. If that approach isn't affordable, then stiffer springs it has to be unfortunately!
The Tyrol kit was very good. Not the cheapest but it certainly did the job. The only snag with very precise subframe location is it makes subframe refitment trickier if it ever has to come down again. Lots of fenangling with precise angles etc but it's doable. But on the flip side, the geometry doesn't change as it all goes back exactly where it was, unlike the stock sloppy fitment :happy2:
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Yeah I misread the price on the Tyrol kit... ouch! Creation Motorsport do one too which is much more affordable, their quality is usually very good considering the price but albeit not the best you can get. Does that mean when you fitted the deadset kit that the subframe only has 1 position it can go in? getting rid of the the subframe being in a right wonky state like mine is now after fiddling with it?
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