Keep spending or call it a day.... Update…

[oldskool.andy]

Hi All,

Had my early Mk5 GTI for 6 months now and although I have had a few niggles it's all been cheap and easy fixes until now.

I have started to get the dreaded low oil pressure warning so I am at a bit of a crossroads on what to do. Had a look at the service history and invoices and it has had the following done:

17/11/16 New oil pump fitted @ 122134 miles (1688.39 Cost)

08/08/17 Cam chain and follower and Head gasket/skim and new Turbo @ 126698 Miles (2696.53 Cost)

02/11/20 In for low oil pressure warning and had Sump off and cleaned but metal fragments were found. @146250 Miles (1105.09 Cost)

No Date New Turbo and Thermostat @ 146851 miles (1427.27 Cost)

Car is currently on 151,275 Miles and I am due a full service and cambelt change along with some work for MOT so really unsure if I should continue.

Car cost me 1400 but it will need a respray as the paint is ruined and I have spent around 400 or so to this point.

What would the next move be if it were your car?

Many thanks
Andy

[Octoparrot]

If I were in your position I'd cut my losses, and get something in better nick. I wouldn't spend a ton of money trying to do up a rough car, it's always cheaper in the long run to buy a better condition car in the first place.

[oldskool.andy]

If I were in your position I'd cut my losses, and get something in better nick. I wouldn't spend a ton of money trying to do up a rough car, it's always cheaper in the long run to buy a better condition car in the first place.

Part of me is thinking the same but I do sub 4000 miles a year and went off the work it had when I bought it thinking it just looked tatty!

The car should pass next MOT with just a CV boot so may DIY the service and I can put off the Cambelt until July.

I need to dig out my old laptop with VagCom on and get some live data on the oil pressure as it drives OK but I have no benchmark to compare it against.

Andy

[breeze]

If oil pressure issues are found but the oil pickup has recently been cleared, what is next, pump itself?

[OllieVRS]

When is the oil pressure light coming on? Is it intermittent or on all the time?

Check the oil isn't over filled. Even though I never found the cause of my low oil pressure, I highly suspect this was what caused it on my vRS.

You can also take off the PCV valve and blow on one of the holes to check if it closes and opens, depending on which hole you blow on. There should be audible pop if it's working correctly.

How long has it been since the oil and filter were done? It's unlikely, but there's a chance the oil filter has collapsed in on itself causing a blockage.

Before you spend hundreds if not more than a thousand fixing it (like I did) I'd recommend getting a mechanical oil pressure gauge and plugging it in and getting some readings. The one I bought was €36. It's a pain to get the oil pressure switch oil but if your determined enough and have a 24mm deep socket you can do it.

If you want some more advice on the getting the oil pressure switch out let me know 

[oldskool.andy]

When is the oil pressure light coming on? Is it intermittent or on all the time?

Check the oil isn't over filled. Even though I never found the cause of my low oil pressure, I highly suspect this was what caused it on my vRS.

You can also take off the PCV valve and blow on one of the holes to check if it closes and opens, depending on which hole you blow on. There should be audible pop if it's working correctly.

How long has it been since the oil and filter were done? It's unlikely, but there's a chance the oil filter has collapsed in on itself causing a blockage.

Before you spend hundreds if not more than a thousand fixing it (like I did) I'd recommend getting a mechanical oil pressure gauge and plugging it in and getting some readings. The one I bought was €36. It's a pain to get the oil pressure switch oil but if your determined enough and have a 24mm deep socket you can do it.

If you want some more advice on the getting the oil pressure switch out let me know 

Thanks for all the info :)

It has come on 4 times in total and never when driven hard, always when just pottering around after being driven hard. 3 times it flashed up for a second or so then went off and one time when I was just parking up in Tesco so engine was switched off.

Oil and filter are 5k old and I have just done an oil only change with my Pela extractor. I have however recently looked over the paperwork and every time the oil has been changed it has had flush run through.

What is the advised oil level? On max or half way in the OK zone?

I am thinking of doing a few oil and filter changes in quick succession and seeing what state the oil comes out? Maybe getting it analyses by a specialist company.

I did a quick PCV test by removing the oil filler cap whilst the engine is running (As advised on a Volkswizard YouTube video)

Everything that could have been replaced has been including the oil pressure sensor however since it has cooled down I am getting a few electrical gremlins appear such as brake pad wear light coming on even though I have new disks and pads and a few random wiper issues.

Thanks again for all your help :)

Andy

[Fallout-NL]

I have started to get the dreaded low oil pressure warning so I am at a bit of a crossroads on what to do.

I am curious, what does this indicate (engine on its way out or something) and what causes it?

[breeze]

I have started to get the dreaded low oil pressure warning so I am at a bit of a crossroads on what to do.

I am curious, what does this indicate (engine on its way out or something) and what causes it?

My understanding is that the oil pickup being blocked is the most likely cause, although OP’s car may be something else.

[OllieVRS]

I have started to get the dreaded low oil pressure warning so I am at a bit of a crossroads on what to do.

I am curious, what does this indicate (engine on its way out or something) and what causes it?

For some engines yes, for others no. If it caused by something serious like piston rings, worn bores or main/big end bearings then likely yes, and it's time for a new engine (unless you're interested in rebuilding it yourself). This usually happens on only extremely high mileage engines, or engines that have been seriously neglected.

Before replacing any more things on the engine, I would seriously recommend getting an oil pressure gauge plugged in. Had I known the correct oil pressure specs (which trying to find them online was like a finding needle in a haystack) I would have never replaced my big end/connecting rod bearings nor taken the oil pump out in my car, potentially saving me €€€. Here are the correct unofficial specs, since VW never offered a guideline for oil pressure PSI at idle (taken from a post on Audizine):



If it's something basic like the PCV, Oil level or filter then it's a cheap fix. The next step up in terms of cost would be a blocked Pick-up pipe (I forgot to mention this in my original reply). This can become clogged with random debris and/or oil gunk/sludge. You will need a few tools and Dirko/OEM VW sump sealant once you're done in there.

If inside the sump and the pick up isn't blocked, try and wiggle the end of the balance shaft at the opposite end from the sprockets to see if it is loose. If yes, replace the pump with an inspected used one, as a new pumps have ridiculous prices.

There is also a chance the balance shaft could have seized, but I think you would have low oil pressure all the time and hear a grinding noise from the engine if this were the case. This can be checked with the pump off, but by taking the pump off you are condemning your wallet as nearly every bolt holding the oil pump is a stupid VW stretch bolt.

The pump doesn't generate oil pressure per se, but rather the oil flow. This flow can be blocked by something (collapsed filter, junk in pick-up) or reduced from too much crank case pressure afaik (blocked PCV). The pressure is created by the tolerances in the engine bearings, a.k.a how worn they are.

For about the same price as replacing the pump, you can replace the big end/connecting rod bearings without taking the engine out, but this is another nightmare I don't want to get into. The chances you could mis align a bearing is quite high, and that would lead to catastrophe. This work was completely unnecessary on my engine, but by the time I found the correct unofficial oil pressure specs I had already taken the pump and rod caps off. I had taken off so many stretch bolts at this point it was worth just replacing the bearings while I was already in there. I would have taken off the pump etc and done all this work had I known the correct oil pressure specs. This is why I cannot stress enough that you need to get a mechanical oil pressure gauge tester plugged in to yours Andy. It could have potentially saved me half a grand in Euros.

Once you find out your car is actually below spec, then it's time to decide whether to keep throwing money at it or not. Do keep in mind to get the true oil pressure you must drive the car hard for 20 minutes or so so the oil is fully warmed up. I did this in quite a hazardous way, where I floored it and my mate held his hand out the window to hold the pressure gauge with the gauge sticking out the side of the bonnet  . I wouldn't recommend this, but it did reveal the true psi.

When just letting the car idle for over 30 minutes, I would get 18 psi on idle. But after 20 minutes of giving it the beans it was at 16.5 psi. During the 10 minute journey home from where were testing it, it remained at 16.5 psi when at idle. In my head, I thought this was too low as the pressure switch turns on at 17.4-23.2 psi. Little did I know the switch doesn't monitor pressure at idle, but at 1200-1500rpm If it stays it detects low oil pressure for over 1.5 seconds it will stay on, no matters the revs.

Of course this driving was done after replacing the pick up pipe, filter and PCV valve and with the correct Oil level (It was past max from the previous owner when I had the low oil pressure light). So I'd already fixed the oil pressure without realising it, but didn't know at the time leading me to replace the big end/connecting rod bearings 

[LC5F]

TFSI engine is notorious for this issue - but oil sensors giving false positive alarms are also possible on VAG cars - has the sensor been replaced with a genuine new one?

If I am reading your post correctly 2x new turbos is worrying - is there a reason for this? was the first replacement $hit?

As for mileage 150k isn't that much, plenty floating around with much more and are still good cars.

[oldskool.andy]

TFSI engine is notorious for this issue - but oil sensors giving false positive alarms are also possible on VAG cars - has the sensor been replaced with a genuine new one?

If I am reading your post correctly 2x new turbos is worrying - is there a reason for this? was the first replacement $hit?

As for mileage 150k isn't that much, plenty floating around with much more and are still good cars.

Yes 2 turbos… 1st one was when the original owner looked after it and the recent was the person I bought it off - he did not work on his own cars so spent close to 4k in a year on it then sold it to me.

Invoice for the 1st one in 2017:

9.00 Labour
1.00 Inlet manifold head gasket
1.00 Exhaust manifold to head
1.00 Fuel Pump O Ring
1.00 Cam Cover Gasket
1.00 Coolant Housing O ring
1.00 Turbo front Pipe Gasket
1.00 Turbo Oil Return Pipe gasket
1.00 Cambelt Kit
1.00 Water Pump
1.00 Alternator Belt
1.00 Head Gasket
10.00 10 × Head bolts
1.00 Cam Chain Tensioner
1.00 Cam Chain
1.00 Repair Set
3.00 3x Tensioner Bolts
1.00 Oil Filter
1.00 Gasket
1.00 Cam Follower
1.00 Screw
1.00 Head Skim
1.00 Head Pressure Test
1.00 Turbo
4.50 4.51 Oil
1.00 41 Coolant
1.00 1 hour labour o/s/f top mount
1.00 Top Mount
1.00 2 × Rear springs
1.00 o/s/f spring

And the recent turbo:

turbo charger
oil filter
oil
flush
Consumable
turbo gasket set
thermostate
gasket
turbo to down pipe studs
down pipe gasket

When the oil pump was changed it states that genuine parts were used but there is no note saying the same for the oil pressure switch.

The latest turbo was £630 + VAT.

Many thanks for all your help :)

[OllieVRS]

That extensive labour in 2017 is just shy of an engine rebuild (or at least in terms of cost) - Headgasket replacement, head skim, turbo replacement, etc. If it's still having oil pressure problems, there's either something seriously wrong or some small stupid thing the previous owner missed.

Turbos die pretty quickly if they have insufficient oil pressure, as I am currently have my turbo rebuilt due to this. The previous owner had one of the oil pump sprocket bolts snap causing no oil pressure for some amount of time on mine (of course they never told me this) which I found about after discovering scratch marks on the oil pump.

I suspect that potentially one of the turbo oil feed/return lines could be partially or fully blocked reducing the oil pressure, that was something missed by the previous owner.

It could also be the PCV. I know you tested it by taking the oil cap off, but just to be sure you should take the PCV off, clean the oil of it if there is any with a lint free cloth, blow one the various square holes on the back of it and finally blow on the end that the plastic tube connects to. It should make a 'pop' sound if it is working correctly. Since it was never replaced in the labour receipts you wrote, there is a chance that it's causing the low oil pressure.

Also it doesn't say in the receipts that the pick up pipe was replaced. This could worth investigating it you're up for diving under your engine with a few basic tools and have at least 5 hours of time on your hands. 

If I were you, I would either get an oil pressure gauge plugged in right away or if you're not confident doing that kind of thing pay your mechanic to do it. If it doesn't match the specs I posted earlier (once idling for at least 30 minutes) then it's time to investigate replacing things. Once again, this is probably the first thing you should do before spending any more money on the it.

A compression test of the engine would also be a good indicator as to how much life it's got left in it. The range if I remember correctly is 109-190psi, where to higher number is a new engine and lower an engine at the end of its lifespan. My engine has 145psi across all cylinders @ 117,800 miles, which is slightly low for the mileage.

You also said the paint was pretty bad on the car. I know GTIs go for big money these days, but if you keep having low oil pressure after replacing the cheap things like the PCV and/or the pick up pipe, I'd say it might be time to consider parting ways with the car unfortunately.

[oldskool.andy]

Thanks Ollie,

I have ordered up a new genuine filter and oil but may have messed up by going for LL3 that it’s had all it’s life - it has had 2 oil and filter changes in the last 5k along with the oil only change and there is conflicting info as to what oil is best when doing low miles on time and distance servicing.

I am able to check the PCV myself but everything else will have to be done by a garage as my days of working on cars in the winter are long gone!

The specialist I use is not local so will look into a trusted garage closer to home to check the oil pressure.

Once I have done the basics I will report back but on my tiny daily commute the oil message does not come on.

Thanks again to everyone who has helped so far!

Andy

[pudding]

If I am reading your post correctly 2x new turbos is worrying - is there a reason for this? was the first replacement $hit?

I thought that as well.  Given the work done to the engine, it should be sweet as a nut, but needing turbo replacement, twice, and a repeat visit for low oil pressure warnings AFTER a new pump was fitted.....yeah....that would have my alarm bells ringing.  Plus the head has been off for skimming as well.  That only needs doing if it warped, so must have overheated.

With that and the description of the exterior/overall condition, I'd be dumping it quick sharp and looking for something better.

There are doer upperer projects, and there are just downright lemons.  This one is in the latter camp by the sounds of it.

Mine is a sh1tbox as well, completely f'cked around with by previous owners, but if it wasn't for the fact it's been so reliable for work, I'd be getting shot of it as well.

[JoshB]

With those previous repair bills it looks like a proper Friday car...

Get it through the MOT and get it on gumtree motors.