Crankshaft/Camshaft error code

[Jons1001]

Hi all, had the following pop up yesterday;

P0016 - Crankshaft position/Camshaft position correlation Bank 1 sensor A
Implausible signal

Have checked channel 093 on my obdeleven and it shows -1.0
So going by this it's hopefully not the timing chain?

Any tips what I should do next? Replace camshaft sensor?

[chimp400]

Usually means there is a timing issue but I'd remove and clean the cam sensor first before firing the parts cannon.
How does it run?

[Jons1001]

Usually means there is a timing issue but I'd remove and clean the cam sensor first before firing the parts cannon.
How does it run?

Runs and idles fine at the moment. As I say the timing seems to be within tolerances on the live data so I'm hoping it's not the chain.

Will try the clean but some websites seem to think it is better to just buy a new sensor? They don't seem to be that expensive I'm just having trouble working out which is the genuine part no.

[chimp400]

I would expect a different code for a failed sensor but you never know.
Good luck with it.

[LC5F]

If you have VCDS check measuring blocks 91, 93 & 94
This is mine in a very healthy state:


Pudding response here outlines how to get true chain stretch by disconnecting the cam phaser sensor:
https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=127512.0

Also - check the plug, think someone recently has the same code and it was damaged connector with internal corrosion

[Jons1001]

Hi here are the results but I didn't remove the sensor yet

[pudding]

Remove the cam sensor and see if it's covered in swarf. I posted about that problem a while ago and how it can affect the signal quality back to the ECU. It's a magnetic sensor and will pick up HPFP follower shrapnel, and other fine metal dust floating in the oil. A new one is about £40.

It's the N205 solenoid you disconnect, otherwise the ECU will adjust the VVT to compensate.  A static timing of +4KW to -4KW is the usual range.  I've only seen hugely bigger numbers than that when the timing was a tooth off.  It's 19KW per tooth, so if it was a tooth off, you'd be seeing something like -24KW and no readings at all in actual and requested.

I can't see the pics (at work) but what is the duty cycle for the N205?  If it's really high, the cam phaser is probably moving more than it should to get to the requested angle, which could indicate chain wear.

[Jons1001]

Remove the cam sensor and see if it's covered in swarf. I posted about that problem a while ago and how it can affect the signal quality back to the ECU. It's a magnetic sensor and will pick up HPFP follower shrapnel, and other fine metal dust floating in the oil. A new one is about £40.

It's the N205 solenoid you disconnect, otherwise the ECU will adjust the VVT to compensate.  A static timing of +4KW to -4KW is the usual range.  I've only seen hugely bigger numbers than that when the timing was a tooth off.  It's 19KW per tooth, so if it was a tooth off, you'd be seeing something like -24KW and no readings at all in actual and requested.

I can't see the pics (at work) but what is the duty cycle for the N205?  If it's really high, the cam phaser is probably moving more than it should to get to the requested angle, which could indicate chain wear.

Cheers Pudding, where do I find the duty cycle data?

[pudding]

I can't remember off the top of my head but it should be in the 91/92 requested angles measuring blocks, and will labelled duty cycle or something.

[Jons1001]

I can't remember off the top of my head but it should be in the 91/92 requested angles measuring blocks, and will labelled duty cycle or something.

Ah ok i can't see anything like that in the data i posted above so maybe its in block 092 which for some reason doesn't display on my OBD11.

I will try and disconnect the N205 later and get another reading and also inspect the camshaft sensor.

With the reading at -2.0KW and the code saying 'implausible signal' would you be treating this as a good sign that it is sensor/connector related rather than timing off or is all this irrelevant without disconnecting the N205 first?

[pudding]

I doubt it's the timing as 093 would be stuck on a large number, and there'd be no VVT movement in blocks 91/92.

OBD11 didn't tell you which sensor it's fussing about.  Sensor A, what ever that is.  VCDS tells you specifically if it's G28 (crank) or G40 (Cam), which helps you narrow it down more easily.

As the cam sensor is the cheapest and easiest sensor to get at, I'd start there.

If N205 was broken, you would get no VVT adjustment, so that's a quick check you can do.

[Jons1001]

I doubt it's the timing as 093 would be stuck on a large number, and there'd be no VVT movement in blocks 91/92.

OBD11 didn't tell you which sensor it's fussing about.  Sensor A, what ever that is.  VCDS tells you specifically if it's G28 (crank) or G40 (Cam), which helps you narrow it down more easily.

As the cam sensor is the cheapest and easiest sensor to get at, I'd start there.

If N205 was broken, you would get no VVT adjustment, so that's a quick check you can do.

Thanks again mate. I took the sensor off and it had a load of sh*te on it as you mentioned above, took a photo but it's not the best



Cleaned it off with rag and put some contact cleaner on the sensor and connector and replaced. Hope its done the trick!

[pudding]

Not at all surprised by that.  Seems to be a common thing.  My guess is it's bedding in particles from new that never made it through the filter, and possibly wear from the HPFP follower/cam lobe so you might want to check that as well.

I've just seen your cam adjustment in the pics is 5.9%, which is normal, so I don't think you need to worry about chain wear.  Hopefully a new/cleaned cam sensor will shift the fault code.

I think what happens is that metallic gunk corrupts the signal back to the ECU and it can no longer correlate the cam's position in relation to the crank - which is basically what P0016 means.