Rear toe and camber arm upgrades

[Janner_Sy]

I've been looking at upgrading the rear end on the race car build

Option wise I see there are arms available from Virkline, Hardrace and Silver projects.

Virkline stuff looks amazing but is crazy money.  Silver Projects is quarter of the price but looks flimsy in comparison. Hardrace aew in between price wise but look sturdy.

Any experience?

[Clarkj93]

Not come across silver projects. But hard race been on my radar for a while for the same reason you mention. Area motorsport did a video recently on a mk7 gti road/track build

they mention that they like to use some of the rear hard race arms on their race cars so they decided to spec them on the track build as well, opting for spherical to race but using the hardened rubber ones as spares for the race car still. Depends on your budget but for me I would think if hardened rubber hard race arms are good enough as spares to keep their race cars competitive if they have an incident then they're good enough for plebs like me.

[Janner_Sy]

We race in the same.series as their Mk7 Golf's.  They are currently dominating Class B.

There's 80k in those builds though 😆

[Clarkj93]

I'm sure they are! Hence why I'd be tempted by just what they leave in their spare parts bin!

[LC5F]

The biggest issue for all will be corrosion, without protection - and a lot of it - all the adjustment will seize.

Project Silver are OK, I have a set of their top mounts in another VW. They tend to use off the shelf parts such as bearings - so an upgraded spherical bearings can usually be sourced once the original has died.

[rich83]

Is there not enough adjustment in the OEM system to get what you want?

[Janner_Sy]

Is there not enough adjustment in the OEM system to get what you want?

There's enough adjustment but the ease and accuracy of adjusting a rose joint is just so much better than a bolt with a cam washer.

Added to the fact I need new bushes anyway, and I won't have to waste time pressing out old bushes, cleaning up arms etc

[Janner_Sy]

The biggest issue for all will be corrosion, without protection - and a lot of it - all the adjustment will seize.

Project Silver are OK, I have a set of their top mounts in another VW. They tend to use off the shelf parts such as bearings - so an upgraded spherical bearings can usually be sourced once the original has died.

Its not a road car. It will be trailered to race circuits and is stored in a dry building outside of that.

[pudding]

Yeah the Verkline stuff is crazy money.  Darkside Developments use it on their race cars, and from what I gather from Ryan's comments in his YouTube videos, it doesn't seem to bring a whole lot to the party in terms of slashing lap times.

Spending £1000s to shave a couple of seconds seems like very poor VFM to me!

I've never understood the business model of a small company charging that kind of money for welding a few pipes together.  How many customers do they expect to attract at those prices?

[Janner_Sy]

Yeah the Verkline stuff is crazy money.  Darkside Developments use it on their race cars, and from what I gather from Ryan's comments in his YouTube videos, it doesn't seem to bring a whole lot to the party in terms of slashing lap times.

Spending £1000s to shave a couple of seconds seems like very poor VFM to me!

I've never understood the business model of a small company charging that kind of money for welding a few pipes together.  How many customers do they expect to attract at those prices?

I thought Darkside had fitted it because it's the only thing that could explain why the Golf wS quicker than their TT.  Not seen any of their vids were they directly review it against stock arms.   I know they did talk Bout doing one.

[pudding]

I think it was a range of different things that made the Golf quicker, some of it power/torque differences on the straights and general suspension setup.  I can't remember the exact video, I just remember thinking that stuff seemed too expensive for the gains it brings. I do remember him fiddling with the rear subframe adjustments which made things worse!

I think Nurburgring Apex people use it on one of their M cars as well.  I'm sure it's good when dialled in but not sure the differences in the real world vs top tyres, driver skill, and coilovers are justified....but horses for courses I guess.

[Janner_Sy]

I'll probably be going hardrace on the rear i think.   Maybe in the future I'll consider throwing the anti squat arms from verkline but not yet.

Certainly no need kn thw front as between the full TT front end and caster/camber adjusting top mounts there's nothing to gain.

Anyone putting any of verkline kit on a road car is on crack 😆   amd clearly uber loaded.

[pudding]

Aaaah, that was it, the anti squat was something Darkside played with and they ended putting it back to standard geometry 

The most I would stretch to on a road car is Ground Control front top mounts and SuperPro consoles.  The rest is just suspension, ARB and tyre choice really.  From there on, it's all diminishing returns....

One thing Darkside did do which is a good idea, and also what I used to do back in my Corrado/MK2 days is seam weld the key structural spot welded panels.  They can pull apart under the stresses of coilovers, arbs etc. The forces have to go somewhere!