Swirl Flap Ingested into engine - Edition 30

[jonnylaris]

Hi,

My 08 Edition 30 decided to eat one of the swirl flaps inside the intake manifold and as a result, part of the swirl flap is now visibly stuck under one of the valves (pictures below). There is no real way of telling how much damage has been caused without removing the head.

My mechanic has already spent 6 hours getting the front end of the car off and removing the manifold etc but has not taken the head off yet.

Has anyone ever heard of this happening before on a mk5 gti? The car is completely stock other than a stage 1 APR map.

[Shoduchi]

Sorry to see it happening to you. I think it's rare but it's because of it that I did the RFD even though it wasn't needed for my level of tune at the time. :\

[jonnylaris]

Yea I can't find much if anything online. Must be incredibly rare :(

[Dan_FR]

6 hours? you need a new mechanic! Takes 2 hours at the most to take the front end off and get the inlet manifold off..... though it can be done without taking the front end off anyway!?

Firstly, remove the debris still there.

Secondly, get a bore scope down the plug hole before you even consider removing the head. You can pick them up for a few quid if needed and even get ones that plug into your smartphone etc.

[jonnylaris]

Well, its not with that mechanic any more. The car is going up to Paul in Dubtec (Ballymoney) in a few weeks. In the meantime it's sitting in my drive with the front still off it :(

[pudding]

Looks more like an air guide plate than a plastic flap from the intake manifold? Never heard of that happening before! Bizarre!

[tigamilla]

When I went for carbon clean last year, one of mine was torn in half and about to go the same way. So it does happen.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Sadly, it is a known problem.  And two specific areas can cause it.

One of the causes can be due to not using an FSI-specific approved engine oil.  Basically, you must only use a VW504.00 approved engine oil (and one which has been officially tested by VW and met their approval) from a quality oil company.  Non FSI-approved oils contain too much ash and other impurities which will coat anything and everything in the oil circuit - including the crankcase ventilation system.  When this ash gets hot, it bakes on as hard carbon, which then ultimately prevents the tumble flaps from working, and will also damage the less robust air guides.

The other issue is replacing the standard paper element air filter for something else.  Irrespective of what the sellers and / or manufacturers of any aftermarket air filter will try to state, they are just never anywhere near as efficient at filtering the air as compared to an OEM spec paper element.  They are akin to eating your own sh!t!  The FSI engines are renown for their excessive amount of oil getting into the inlet manifold area - everything gets coated with oil, and crap air filters then allow dirt particles to enter and stick to oily surfaces.  A disaster waiting to happen.

[pudding]

Agreed on the air filter, simply because if you unpleat a stock one vs a K&N, the filtration area of the stock part is massive.  I've never liked aftermarket oiled cotton or foam.  It's basic physics.  Bigger holes = more crap getting through and bugger up MAFs and compressor wheels.

Didn't know that about the oil.  Ash as in fag ash and emptying fire places into a vat of oil and then bottling it?  Weird.  I know zinc or tungsten disulphide are good additives for flat tappets (roller followers don't need it so much), but ash??!

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Ash is a simplified term.  Virtually all modern cars with post combustion treatment devices require 'low-ash' oils.  Also known as low-SAPS oils.  Sadly, there is not a 'one size fits all' low-SAPS specification.  The European ACEA (www.ACEA.be) devised generic SAPS specifications,(https://www.OilSpecifications.org/acea.php) and these are categorised by the ACEA 'C' component.  OEM manufacturers then use an appropriate set of ACEA standards, and further develop and refine into their own OEM oil standards - in our specific case - VW504.00/507.00.(https://www.OilSpecifications.org/volkswagen.php)

Usage of correct oil specifications has never been more vital, as it is well known that non-approved oils cause very serious damage, and even major engine failure.  One absolutely critical area is VW Group engines which use timing chains - wrong oils cause one or more chains to snap - not nice if you have a 4.2 V8 Audi B6 S4, or R8!  And this crucial need for correct engine oils is nothing new.  Anyone who had a PD diesel engine will know the dearth of incorrect oils - and ironically, the level of force on the PD cam lobes is very similar to that on the HPFP lobes.

It really does make me very angry when highly irresponsible a-holes such as Opie 'recommend' wrong oils.  They usually spout such bullsh!t as 'once out of warranty - use any spec of oil'.  Wrong!  That is like saying once your GTI is out of warranty, fill the petrol tank with diesel!

[Teutonic_Tamer]

As to the comments on tappets - roller tappets can be just as demanding as flat tappets.  Roller tappets are generally engineered to constantly rotate with each operation of valve.  They do this with an amount of skew - and this causes a complex high-shear moment.  The 'high-sheer' is yet another part of ACEA oil testing requirements - known as HTHS.

[Northern_ED30]

Sorry to Gravedig, but this just happened on my Edition 30

So I don' think it's necessarily a rare problem :(