What does this engine clicking noise sound like to you?

[smilespergallon]

Had this clicking sound coming from the engine for the last couple of weeks.

It only happens when you're accelerating from low RPM. For example, if you're crawling and then go to accelerate in 2nd gear, you'll hear this clicking/rattling noise between 1,000-2,000 RPM.

But in general driving the noise isn't there. It's just when accelerating in a higher gear, or blipping the accelerator in a certain way when stationary (like in the video).

I'm not getting any error codes, and the car feels absolutely fine to drive. It's just this clicking noise at low RPM.

Any ideas what it could be?

[OllieVRS]

This might be a long shot, but have you ever had the cam chain done?

If you have VCDS you can check block 093 when the car is fully up to temp, check the phase position value. If it's more negative than -4.0KW that could potentially be the source of the noise.

[smilespergallon]

This might be a long shot, but have you ever had the cam chain done?

If you have VCDS you can check block 093 when the car is fully up to temp, check the phase position value. If it's more negative than -4.0KW that could potentially be the source of the noise.

Thanks, I also suspected it might be something to do with the timing chain. It sounds like it's coming from that side of the engine.

I haven't had it replaced in the last 10 years of owning the car, so I'm assuming it has not been done in its lifetime (135,000 miles).

I checked block 093 hoping to see some bad results, but somewhat annoyingly I've got a reading of -1.0KW. Do you think it could still be causing this noise with a reading like this?

Might be worth doing anyway (assuming this kind of noise isn't suggesting that the engine isn't completely done for). Just wondering if there's anything else aside from the chain and tensioner that would be worth replacing while I'm in there.

[pudding]

Unplug the VVT solenoid and see if the noise stops.

[ZoliWorks]

Mine wasn't making that noise specifically but it was clogged up quite a bit because the previous owner neglected the oil changes and cooked the engine slightly. My 93 block was reading anywhere from -2 to -6. In my case, it would regularly throw correlation fault codes and would be sluggish to respond. I could floor it, release, clutch in, shift gear, clutch out and it would still be pulling as if I never let off the throttle.

I ended up going full length, changing the chain, tensioner, VVT wheel and VVT control valve (all INA parts). The car had an instant change in how it accelerates or responds. You tap it and it shoots forward. 93 block is now between +5 and +2 and doing a 3rd to 5th gear pull and a VCDS log, the cam timing specified and actual is almost 1-to-1 with a 0.5 to max 1 degrees mismatch every now and then.

I would also check the cam follower just to be safe.

[smilespergallon]

Unplug the VVT solenoid and see if the noise stops.

Thanks. I gave it a go, but noise is still there.

I've been browsing around and I think it might be the cam adjuster. These were the comments on this video:

"Hi, after my mechanic did the same job, the car came back with a rattle on the cam chain side that disappears after 2000rpm. I know the chain and tensioner was replaced, I don't know if the adjuster was replaced. Could it be the n205 sensor or the cam adjuster?"

"I found out the problem was the vvt cam adjuster wheel sprocket, the axx engine has metal sealing rings which wears the inner surface and was preventing sufficient oil reaching the adjuster, so replacing that cam adjuster sproket and using the new plastic revised rings resolved the issue."

Mine wasn't making that noise specifically but it was clogged up quite a bit because the previous owner neglected the oil changes and cooked the engine slightly. My 93 block was reading anywhere from -2 to -6. In my case, it would regularly throw correlation fault codes and would be sluggish to respond. I could floor it, release, clutch in, shift gear, clutch out and it would still be pulling as if I never let off the throttle.

I ended up going full length, changing the chain, tensioner, VVT wheel and VVT control valve (all INA parts). The car had an instant change in how it accelerates or responds. You tap it and it shoots forward. 93 block is now between +5 and +2 and doing a 3rd to 5th gear pull and a VCDS log, the cam timing specified and actual is almost 1-to-1 with a 0.5 to max 1 degrees mismatch every now and then.

I would also check the cam follower just to be safe.

Yeah I'm thinking about changing the chain, tensioner, and cam adjuster (VVT wheel).

Where did you get the parts from? I'm looking to get INA too as I hear they're OEM. I found this kit on eBay, but I'm not sure if the cam adjuster is INA as well. Seems like the price might be too good to be true.

EDIT: This kit looks like it will do the job: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155538839724

EDIT 2: The camshaft adjuster in the above kit isn't INA. I found this kit instead: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385581070466

[ZoliWorks]

Got mine from my local mechanic. He has some contacts with parts suppliers and can get me some decent prices. I'm gonna give aprox. prices due to conversion rates. Chain and tensioner were 60 euros, roller was 150, adjuster control valve was 25, vvt housing gasket was 5 and valve cover gasket was 10. If I were to go to a parts dealer other than my guy, I'd pay double.

I'd change the adjuster valve too and clean the camshaft position sensor along with the crankshaft sensor. Crank sensor is under the intake, to the left of the throttle body, next to the thermostat.

EDIT: You or whoever does the timing kit for you, keep the following in mind. The bolt that secures the VVT gear to the exhaust camshaft needs a special socket to unbolt (VW5220). It will most likely be stuck in place and will take quite some force to remove. The bolt itself is super easy to strip so make sure you don't let the socket wiggle and make sure it's all the way in. I've managed to strip my bolt and had to drill it then hammer an M10 key into it to finally get some grip and be able to remove it. I'm sure the camshaft didn't like it but I will be replacing them anyway later.

[smilespergallon]

Got mine from my local mechanic. He has some contacts with parts suppliers and can get me some decent prices. I'm gonna give aprox. prices due to conversion rates. Chain and tensioner were 60 euros, roller was 150, adjuster control valve was 25, vvt housing gasket was 5 and valve cover gasket was 10. If I were to go to a parts dealer other than my guy, I'd pay double.

I'd change the adjuster valve too and clean the camshaft position sensor along with the crankshaft sensor. Crank sensor is under the intake, to the left of the throttle body, next to the thermostat.

EDIT: You or whoever does the timing kit for you, keep the following in mind. The bolt that secures the VVT gear to the exhaust camshaft needs a special socket to unbolt (VW5220). It will most likely be stuck in place and will take quite some force to remove. The bolt itself is super easy to strip so make sure you don't let the socket wiggle and make sure it's all the way in. I've managed to strip my bolt and had to drill it then hammer an M10 key into it to finally get some grip and be able to remove it. I'm sure the camshaft didn't like it but I will be replacing them anyway later.

Thanks. Bought the following items from eBay:

* INA Timing Chain, INA Tensioner, INA Adjuster, Bolt: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385581070466
* Elring Timing Chain Cover Gasket: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186098855406
* Oil Control Rings (not sure what manufacturer, couldn't find Elring): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333932667755
* INA Camshaft Adjuster Valve: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/335229150433

Also bought a cheap cam locking tool from eBay. I've seen these snap, so going to weld it up beforehand: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0BYNFM3KG/

So that's about £350 altogether for INA parts plus the tools I need.

I'm going to give it a go in a week or two when the parts arrive.

I'm fully expecting the camshaft adjuster bolt to give me some trouble. But as you say, drilling it out a little and hammering in an T60 torx seems like plan B:

Thanks again.

[OllieVRS]

Good luck with it.

I did this last year, a few recommendations and notes from my experience:

By a genuine VW bit for the adjust bolt, as I bought a cheapo Laser one off Amazon, it didn't fit snuggly and stripped the bolt. Make sure there is a little oil as possible on the bolt when undoing it.

And not to scare you, but bashing in the T60 isn't guaranteed to work. For me it would just slip out. So I ended up spending two days and multiple drill bits drilling the b*stard out. Plan B may turn into Plan C 

Welding up the cam locking tool is a great idea, as the legs on my Chinese Amazon one bent from all the torque, making it near-useless, as I didn't have a welder. I had to use vice grips with a cloth to secure the cam, which is risky as the cam itself is hollow so it can break. Also make sure to weld in such a way that the cam locking tool still fit, that your welds aren't in the way.

Otherwise you're good to go 

[smilespergallon]

Good luck with it.

I did this last year, a few recommendations and notes from my experience:

By a genuine VW bit for the adjust bolt, as I bought a cheapo Laser one off Amazon, it didn't fit snuggly and stripped the bolt. Make sure there is a little oil as possible on the bolt when undoing it.

And not to scare you, but bashing in the T60 isn't guaranteed to work. For me it would just slip out. So I ended up spending two days and multiple drill bits drilling the b*stard out. Plan B may turn into Plan C 

Welding up the cam locking tool is a great idea, as the legs on my Chinese Amazon one bent from all the torque, making it near-useless, as I didn't have a welder. I had to use vice grips with a cloth to secure the cam, which is risky as the cam itself is hollow so it can break. Also make sure to weld in such a way that the cam locking tool still fit, that your welds aren't in the way.

Otherwise you're good to go 

Haha, thanks. Just stumped up £20 for a genuine one. Seems expensive but I think I'd rather pay £20 than be holding on to a drill for two days crying.

Fingers crossed.

[OllieVRS]

Haha, thanks. Just stumped up £20 for a genuine one. Seems expensive but I think I'd rather pay £20 than be holding on to a drill for two days crying.

Fingers crossed.

Bang on. When after 13 hours of drilling (including 3 journeys to the shops for drill bits), and continuous muscle pain from holding the drill in place, I actually cried tears of happiness/relief

[Wastedspark]

Use Cobolt drill bits I drilled mine out in minuets, they’ll cost the same as the Vw tool though.

[smilespergallon]

Managed to replace the timing chain (and camshaft adjuster) today. The exact same noise is still there though.

Any ideas what else it could be? Any chance it could be a faulty injector making the noise?

NOTE: For what it's worth, I managed to get the cam adjuster bolt off without stripping it. I could feel it starting the strip in the night when trying to crack it off, so left it to the morning fully prepared to have to do some drilling. But I gave it one final go in the morning before drilling just to see if it would come off or strip, and by the grace of God it cracked off.

[OllieVRS]

Well done on getting job done without problems.

I'm now stumped by the noise even more. Unless some engine genius on here can weigh in, it might be time to start throwing money at different parts.

Maybe time to give VCDS another shot to check if any fuel/air related numbers look strange when the noise is happening, do a live monitoring of the 4 misfire counters, check fuel pressure is meeting the requested amount, etc?

[mjmallia]

Did you check the cam adjuster seals as they can crack, wear or break off completely.

They control the oil pressure at different rpm stages.  If one fails it could cause a rattle at idle, mid rpm or high rpm......I had the first and last issue over the years related to these rings.  Last one related to wear when I got the car and the first one from when the cam chain was replaced with new rings, but one had unexpectantly broke during refitting    Another set of rings and very careful refitting, and it has been fine ever since.