Anyone else still unsure who you are going to vote for??

[cmdrfire]

^^^
Can't let this one pass, even though I ought to head to bed.

The UN has its foundations in the Allied Powers which were victorious during WW2. Its main drive is as a place for dialogue between different states; action (that is, sanctions, peacekeeping, or armed intervention) can only be brought about from the Security Council, whose five permanent members were the aforesaid Allied Powers.
The EU had its roots in removing the possibility for war in Europe by building up strong economical, industrial, and manufacturing links across the Central/Western European states such that it would be impossible for any one of them to war upon any of the others. This role has been accomplished admirably.
Being a member of the UN definitely does not preclude ties with our nearest neighbours.

So. What does the EU do for you? Some simple examples from my own line of work: although the plugs may be different, the voltage/current range across the EU is harmonised now (220-240V, 50-60Hz), so you don't need to carry bulky transformers any longer. Mobile phones all interoperate across the same frequency bands across the entire EU (case in point: in the US, there are a number of incompatible networks, so if you buy a phone for one network, you're stuck and can't swap). Forthcoming EU regulations will limit the charges operators can charge you for data so you can't get gouged for downloading emails on your phone whilst in the EU.
Safety! Almost all electrical equipment sold across the EU needs to be "CE" marked meaning that it won't kill you and conforms to a number of standards (anyone old enough to remember when cars drove by teevees and caused all sorts of interference? Probably only Robin!), and don't emit excessive unwanted electromagnetic radiation (and in turn can reject it), meaning more reliable devices and gadgets. Your microwave is unlikely to kill you, and your washing machine is safer than ever.
Cars! Lots of EU stuff about cars, making them safer and more reliable. All equipment for cars needs to be "e-marked" meaning it has been stringently tested to a number of standards which are common across the EU. Your mobile phone won't break your car, and vice versa. All our cars drink the same fuel! No more fear of driving to France and putting watered-down fuel in your car! Emissions standards! There is no longer a brown cloud of smog around our cities because of common European emissions standards!
Air travel! The price of air travel has dropped considerably - I heard an advert for £29 return flight to Spain today - largely because of the Common Market.
Intelligence! At work we have a very good Hungarian engineer and a very good Polish engineer. These guys couldn't be here (putting their money into UK PLC!) if it weren't for the EU. Likewise, the CEO of Lotus cars is an Italian. Ross Braun at Mercedes F1 is British. Visa requirements for this kind of operation were difficult and expensive in the 70s and 80s.
Travel generally! I can hope on a train at St Pancras and travel on high speed rail all the way to Warsaw (changing at Brussels and Berlin). I can buy the entire ticket now! No border checks! I kind of like the ability to drive all the way from Budapest to Lisbon without a single passport stop.

The free movement of people, ideas, and products is at the core of the EU. Some electronics I design and which conform to the CE standards can be sold all across Europe! Good for me, it means I don't need to conform to a million different market standards and test to each one and sell the product with a trillion different labels. One little CE mark does it all.

If you work just about any industry there are EU grants and soft loans available to support your business. If you work in academia undoubtedly some of the funding for your institution comes from the EU. Considerable amounts of funding for research comes from the EU. Building infrastructure? You can get EU money for that too. Oh hey! Harmonised standards for infrastructure! That means that I can build a high speed train in France and drive it all over Europe where they have standardised High Speed Rail lines and overhead power cables! Using common security and safety protocols which means I won't crash into any other trains!

For sure, the bureaucracy is nightmarish and there are far too many people involved and all sorts of quasi-dictatorial characters and there's far too much red tape. And some countries do take the piss (looking squarely at Spain and French farmers here). There have been some idiotic decisions (the banana wars, anyone? and fishing as you say has been exceptionally poorly managed). But generally, somehow, it stumbles along. The whole idea behind the Lisbon treaty was to streamline things considerably, make decision making quicker and more transparent, and more reliant on elected representatives. Hopefully it will succeed in those goals. In the meantime, we certainly receive more benefits than many are aware of or are popularised.

/enough long posts for the day

[RedRobin]

^^^^
Major Respect to you, Neo! Really! BIG Respect 



But, for me.........

[matsu]

none of the parties actually listen to the general public and as much as i dislike the french their politicians do as they are bid because they vote with their feet and all hell lets loose with blockades etc if they dont.
when will the british people realise that by voting and protesting we can ensure the people in power whoever it may be this time do have to listen to us... its our country!

i,ll vote forthe party that  makes real decisions against the real problems this country is facing.
these 3 for example.....
immigration- financial tourists coming here to sponge off of our good nature(read softness)-this is actually our problem not theirs-if i was in their shoes i would do the same- so lets stop giving money away to people who have not contributed to this country.if they want to come and work and be part of this country and our rules our beliefs our culture then they are welcome
crime- plasma screens in prison, FFS- people that commit crime should have their rights taken away not be pampered and rewarded
europe- keep the pound and stop contributing to the Eu. we are much better off independent and in control of our own destiny i would go as far as saying tax the foreign imported stuff more to encourage people to buy british!

ok i,m gonna go back to work while someone sets my post on fire with their flaming lol
matsu

[cmdrfire]

europe- keep the pound and stop contributing to the Eu. we are much better off independent and in control of our own destiny i would go as far as saying tax the foreign imported stuff more to encourage people to buy british!

See my long post 'bout Europe. Also, there are many things we can no longer get as made in the UK due to the Conservative's destruction of British manufacturing and engineering sectors when they were last in power (see my long post 'bout the parties).

Hey, wait, don't you drive a German car?! If you had to buy a British car you're now stuck with Morgan more or less... Where's your mobile phone made? Because I'll bet money it wasn't made in the UK. What brand tyres do you have? They're almost certainly not British. Got a digital camera? I've got a couple, and they're either German or Japanese. Got a watch? Unless it's made by Bell & Ross, it's unlikely to be made in the UK. Et cetera, et cetera.


I agree with your points on immigration and crime though (not that the rights should be taken away, but prisoners in for jail time should sure as hell be made to work). WRT immigration the LibDems are the only ones who have a semi-sensible policy; not sure if anyone's saying anything substantial about crime.

[jimlad09]

theres too much to even reply to there ....who are you running for in parliment? ha

I agree with your points but equally would have counter points towards some of them. Where i whole heartedly agree there are benefits for having close ties with europe I cant see how such an incredible figure of money can warrant standardised plugs and better summer holidays. I think if we did pull out tomorrow there would be little change to our lives. We would still import and export products manufactured to a certain quality stantard CE or otherwise as its in a companies interest to do so. Car manufacturers like-wise. As for forgein labour (you refer to engineers at your work place) i dont disagree there are many many men and women that contribute to our country...and many more that dont. And how are they paying into a uk plc if they work for one? But anyhow i am not simply saying. No. The EU is wrong. I just can see how or what we get for that obscene amount of money.

Immigration is another massive issue one i dont think has been handled well or has any forsight to get better. I saw printed in a newspaper the other day there are over 1million illegal immigrants we dont know there whereabouts. Thats not good. If we went abroad and did the same there would be serious repercussions. It seems the UK bow down to EU law and many others dont.

On a similar note this open boarders means that skilled labour and resourceful people can travel it also means that criminals, terrorists and generally unsavoury people.

Jipo's are another issue (or travellers if we're being PC). I live in the east of our country and we have a fair few of them around and they get away with everything. The police seem scared and unwilling to act. Iv heard too many stories of them stealing, fighting, assaulting, taking land that isnt theres and building without permission. Living on intimidation.

The most concerning was an incident that occured locally and i only wish i could give you details but due to its severity and it is on going i simply cant. BUT they dont pay taxes or put anything back into society other than their rubbish and they have some of the nicest newest cars around.

Benefits. We shell out taxes (and my road tax alone is eye watering) for it to be spent of people who have no intention of getting a job or bettering themselves. and why would they? Members of my family have benefitted from carers benefits but these are essential and worth while. Paying someone money to look for a job when they dont have any inclination to get one, give them a house, cos they have no job, give them dissability money when theres chuff all wrong with them is hurrendous. I agree help people but again government gets it wrong and all this human rights comes in but we give too much, we're a soft touch. Wheres our rights? Someone breaks into my house and i hit them, THEY CAN SUE ME!! America you shoot him and get a handshake from your local bobby! Go figure.

Again i hasten to add that there are people, genuine people, that recieve and deserve these cash injections from the government. And im sure some that dont recieve it, why, because theres bogus claims. Why arent we saying "right, you cant find a job, havnt had one in 6 years, right to earn your benefits you have to report to this depot where you will be out picking litter up from the roadside, or cleaning the streets" or another worth while task that benefits the community and ultimately the country. and make them do drugs and sobriety tests to ensure that the benefits arent being spent on luxuries. Because if i lost my job i wouldnt be able to afford such luxuries. (although drugs are bad kids! ha)

I think theres so so much wrong and whilst there are some rights the wrongs way out way them. And yeah another well constructed counter arguement could be put forward, but the facts are this happens. its undeniable. I wish i could sit and write all the things im happy with (and im happy enough! and i couldnt be prime minister) but im just giving my opinion from where i sit and what i want to see done.

Im not disagreeing with what people say or looking for arguements. Everyone has their opinion but im always eager to hear feedback and others ideas.

MATSU is spot on  

[RedRobin]

^^^^
Jimlad, Respect to you too - You and cmdrfire offer lots of very valid points.

However, I'm far too comfortable and apathetic/lazy to apply my brain to any of it. I know.....  It's my loss 

It all makes very balanced and intelligent reading though.

[matsu]

i work in a salon where 3/18 staff dont vote. not only do tjhey not vote they dont know who gordon brown is. who the chancellor of the exchequer is...... or even what that is!
go figure!

i see the benefits of europe and i know we dont have industry atr the moment but fact is we should have!
as RR has said. there are some very good points made and i respect all of your opinions....
i,m fcuking off to australia lol!............... if only

if there are 1 million immigrants here that we cant find. how are they surviving?
can they poss be on benefits? or is it we are giving so much to their cousins/brothers sisters etc that they can all afford to eat buy new nikes and drink in my bloody local costa all day? i can find them theyre all bleeding sitting on the leather sofas drinking expressos!!
oooh rant over!
matsu

[RedRobin]

i,m fcuking off to australia lol!............... if only

if there are 1 million immigrants here that we cant find. how are they surviving?
can they poss be on benefits? or is it we are giving so much to their cousins/brothers sisters etc that they can all afford to eat buy new nikes and drink in my bloody local costa all day? i can find them theyre all bleeding sitting on the leather sofas drinking expressos!!
oooh rant over!
matsu

....In Australia you are forced to vote and if you don't you get fined. Unless there is an option to tick a "None of the above" box, that sucks big time!

I don't doubt that some immigrants are on the scam (it's in human nature) but it's easy to forget that most 'English' people simply won't do the jobs which immigrant workers are willing to do. Go figure.

Also, election day should be made a public holiday 

[V2 FAN]

There seems to have been a lot of good stuff i've read lately about a coalition government - make them work together. TBH having listened to a lot of what they all propose, no single party has my total agreement, but a combination of the big three seems to be the best solution.

What they need to get their head around is that this isnt some kind of power trip and stop wanting to be the big i am, they need to put the people of this country first, not their own political careers!

A hung parliament could be the best thing for this country - just so long as they can actually work together and not just carry on with the petty arguing like school children trying to gain dominance over the other 2.

Thread Revival  

4 years on - what did you think back then and what do you think now ?

[V2 FAN]

Don't trust Cameron and his party for the working people

Can't see Clegg getting enough seats to run the country

so better the devil you know

 

[rich83]

There seems to have been a lot of good stuff i've read lately about a coalition government - make them work together. TBH having listened to a lot of what they all propose, no single party has my total agreement, but a combination of the big three seems to be the best solution.

What they need to get their head around is that this isnt some kind of power trip and stop wanting to be the big i am, they need to put the people of this country first, not their own political careers!

A hung parliament could be the best thing for this country - just so long as they can actually work together and not just carry on with the petty arguing like school children trying to gain dominance over the other 2.

Thread Revival  

4 years on - what did you think back then and what do you think now ?

A load of hot air back then and a load of hot air now. I don't believe a word any of them say. Will most likely not vote in the next elections or spoil my paper.

[RedRobin]

A load of hot air back then and a load of hot air now. I don't believe a word any of them say. Will most likely not vote in the next elections or spoil my paper.

....If we're talking about the forthcoming Euro elections, or whatever they are called, then I can't be arsed - especially as I'll be away most of that day.

As a youngster I voted Conservative of course due to my family and peer group. Then, much to my father's annoyance I didn't vote at all for decades and think it absolutely right that people can decide not to vote without risking alienation or a criminal record.

In recent times however, I proudly vote Conservative again - Not because of any naive belief that Tories are beyond criticism etc but because in my opinion they are the best of a bad lot and my vote counters someone else's vote for the rest of the loonies. Hopefully the word "loony" isn't now considered racist!

I'd love to see Boris as PM and if Jeremy Clarkson loses his job he'd be great fun in politics too. People take life far too seriously.

[Horatio]

The game hasnt changed in hunderds of years and it'll go on in one direction only and never ever change.



Why OH Why this Government borrows money, at interest, when It can simply print its own money.....I dont know. JFK done it though.....