General > Product Reviews
VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension....
RedRobin:
--- Quote from: stiggy on January 21, 2009, 02:13:06 pm ---Many thanks for the brilliant right up RedRobin - been very informative and interesting to read.
--- End quote ---
....Thanks stiggy :happy2:
--- Quote from: stiggy on January 21, 2009, 02:13:06 pm ---When i get the suspension sorted obviously there'll be a compromise in comfort, but how much of a difference do you think there has been from standard? Also, what difference is there between the VWR KW V3 suspension and the 'normal' KW V3?
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1) - Difference in comfort from standard:
A huge difference in the feel of the ride but not seriously compromising comfort. It's never harsh, even on shallow potholes, but it is hard. The rebound is so good that even speed bumps are more comfortable because bounce is greatly reduced. Even when 'making progress' causes the car to leap a bit, she recovers so quickly and without any feeling of loss of stability - Lots of such moments might justify proper Recaro seats for more support.
At slow speeds over broken surfaces you can feel every ridge and bump but never causing discomfort. You get more intrusion from hearing the ridges than from feeling them. She is surprisingly smooth at speed and, unless you are really pushing onwards, a longer journey doesn't move you around in your seat, so it's potentially less tiring. I'm feeling road imperfections softly but definably, in the seat of my pants but not through to my back - That's what I feel but I can't speak for someone else who might tense themselves because they have a back problem or similar.
Some people (often wifeys and g'friends) prefer a softer ride (when it comes to cars!!) and this is much to do with their expectations. Sorry, but "Oooh, I felt so comfortable, I didn't feel a thing" doesn't float my boat.
It's possible that my suspension highlights any dashboard etc squeaks but that's also down to hot and cold expansions coming from an indoor garage to the cold outside.
My new suspension makes the GTI feel more tactile and gives you much more feedback than standard - Harder but not uncomfortable in my opinion. The biggest difference from standard which immediately strikes you when going through a roundabout or bend, is how incredibly flatly planted you feel. Of course the Whiteline AntiLift kit also contributes to the turn-in and anti-roll bars contribute too - It's a package.
If you are going to The Pod meet on 1st Feb you should join the queue for a ride with me!
2) - Difference between VWR-KW-V3 and standard KW-V3:
A very good question but I don't have much driving experience (mostly passenger) of the standard V3's. The VWR versions are twintube which is unusual for a 'street' damper but allows better adjustments.
The valving and setting parameters on mine are as on the race cars but mine are stainless steel instead of galvanised. They are adjustable but to settings exclusive to VWR as a result of extensive testing on their race cars. My spring rating is exclusive too (hence the different colour). This particular version of the V3 has been produced exclusively for VWR and is designed for 'Fast Road' use and durability.
VW Racing have a longstanding technical partnership with KW Germany and play a part in feeding KW information from their experience. Their working relationship allows VWR to specify what they want manufactured for themselves and so mine were ordered specifically by Mark at VWR.
All V3's are highly rated by all and their only rival is Bilstein imo. Their adjustability allows someone like Mark to apply their very valuable setting up skills and it's because of their variability that less experienced people can find them difficult to get right. You may get them good, but will you have found their sweetest spot? Doing corner-weighting is an added fine adjustment.
I'll edit this later if I find I'm wrong, but I think that VWR's versions cost the same as normal V3's retail for. VWR/RacingLine are NOT in the market of offering cheap deals - They're not an off-a-shelf retailer, they primarily build VW race cars and also organise races. Yes, I paid a total which was more than it could have been by going elsewhere but I don't have a clue how to set up a car's suspension to its optimum and I completely trust VWR's work and value their specialist skills and excellent aftercare. My GTI is in good hands, as indeed it is with JKM for tuning and my VW dealer Loders for servicing and general help.
Finally, we are all individuals on this forum and not everyone here wants their GTI (I include Ed30 of course) to feel 'tactile' and in touch with the tarmac! Not everyone here loves the sounds of exhaust music and an engine breathing. Not everyone wants to work their gears and exercise their suspension. But if you do, doing this suspension mod will transform your car and your driving enjoyment [together with a Quaife, big brake kit, etc etc etc etc....Sorreeeeeeee! :evilgrin:]
As you would expect, Mark at VWR/RL is always busy but he is a genuine lover of cars (and bikes) and if you are prepared to be flexible in fitting into their race priority schedules, they will give you 200% attention and apply very valuable skills based on VW experience.
stiggy:
^^^
That has been really helpful - thanks :happy2:
What you say there is exactly how i would want the car to behave and i'm pleased to read how your car performs. While the original chassis setup of the car is very good, i do feel that the car "rolls" in corners especially when pushed hard - so it's reassuring to hear that the car is flatter in the bends. I would love to feel the grip more and the extra feedback in the steering wheel would be great. The only dilemma i now have is this - as it stands i am mostly a chauffeur when driving the car, mostly to my parents and they both don't like a hard ride - the oem setup is quite comfortable for them, so i don't know how this new setup is going to change things. Ideally i would like a demo of a car with this setup on and i'd love to come to the pod to see your car RedRobin (thanks for the offer by the way :smiley:) and see everyone else's beast (and all the faces that drive these beasts :driver:) but unfortuneately won't be able to attend. So i may ask VWR if i can have a demo in their car (if they will allow me to, whenever it is convenient for them). I was initially looking at the koni + eibach setup but have read reviews that the konis don't last as long as others (including KW) and i'd like a more long term suspension setup, so it's either the KW or Bilstein for me - and the Bilstein give a very harsh ride supposedly (anyone correct me if i'm wrong though).
I think this forum will get me bankrupt very soon :jumping: (Right, where's this thread about DSG remaps i've heard so much about....... :evilgrin:)
illyun:
--- Quote from: stiggy on January 22, 2009, 01:28:54 am --- Bilstein give a very harsh ride supposedly (anyone correct me if i'm wrong though).
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I have Bilstein PS9s and on the softest setting, they are quite firm. I have them on a medium setting and on that, they are very firm :evilgrin: :evilgrin: Probably not the way to go if your parents like a comfortable ride.
--- Quote from: stiggy on January 22, 2009, 01:28:54 am ---I think this forum will get me bankrupt very soon
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I'm almost there myself :scared:
ukdub:
--- Quote from: illyun on January 22, 2009, 10:38:44 am ---
--- Quote from: stiggy on January 22, 2009, 01:28:54 am --- Bilstein give a very harsh ride supposedly (anyone correct me if i'm wrong though).
--- End quote ---
I have Bilstein PS9s and on the softest setting, they are quite firm. I have them on a medium setting and on that, they are very firm :evilgrin: :evilgrin: Probably not the way to go if your parents like a comfortable ride.
--- Quote from: stiggy on January 22, 2009, 01:28:54 am ---I think this forum will get me bankrupt very soon
--- End quote ---
I'm almost there myself :scared:
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I know what you mean. We should give a prize to the first person to go bankrupt due to modding their GTI. :grin:
RedRobin:
--- Quote from: stiggy on January 22, 2009, 01:28:54 am ---^^^
That has been really helpful - thanks :happy2:
--- End quote ---
....Exactly why I've written it - To help by contributing to this forum which in turn helps me via the contributions of others.
Also there is always a selfish pleasure in giving to others.
--- Quote from: stiggy on January 22, 2009, 01:28:54 am ---What you say there is exactly how i would want the car to behave and i'm pleased to read how your car performs. While the original chassis setup of the car is very good, i do feel that the car "rolls" in corners especially when pushed hard - so it's reassuring to hear that the car is flatter in the bends. I would love to feel the grip more and the extra feedback in the steering wheel would be great.
--- End quote ---
....Indeed, the Mk5 chassis is very highly rated and the standard GTI's setup is excellent but it is nonetheless designed and produced for a mass market for numerous countries and 'enthusiasts' such as ourselves don't represent a huge percentage - Just consider the number of other GTI drivers you see on the road who never acknowledge another GTI and who drive like grannies - To them it's merely the top of the range Golf (excluding the R32 which is more obviously performance).
--- Quote from: stiggy on January 22, 2009, 01:28:54 am ---The only dilemma i now have is this - as it stands i am mostly a chauffeur when driving the car, mostly to my parents and they both don't like a hard ride - the oem setup is quite comfortable for them, so i don't know how this new setup is going to change things.
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....It doesn't sound as if your parents will like the ride from what you say. It is very hard but not harsh. You don't achieve improved handling without those 'compromises'. But to some extent it's subjective and depends what you want.
There is also the factor of 'expectations' - How many others would notice without being told? Once told, they would naturally focus on it. It's like dashboard squeaks - Once you get going you don't hear them beacuse your brain is more focussed on driving, but they're still there!
--- Quote from: stiggy on January 22, 2009, 01:28:54 am ---Ideally i would like a demo of a car with this setup on and i'd love to come to the pod to see your car RedRobin (thanks for the offer by the way :smiley:) and see everyone else's beast (and all the faces that drive these beasts) but unfortuneately won't be able to attend. So i may ask VWR if i can have a demo in their car (if they will allow me to, whenever it is convenient for them). I was initially looking at the koni + eibach setup but have read reviews that the konis don't last as long as others (including KW) and i'd like a more long term suspension setup, so it's either the KW or Bilstein for me - and the Bilstein give a very harsh ride supposedly (anyone correct me if i'm wrong though).
--- End quote ---
....A long while ago I drove Ray West's Mk5 GTI which was specifically built for both road and track (he has an international race licence) and his had Bilstein - It wasn't harsh - It was hard. The car was cover feature in a past issue of Volkswagen Driver.
So much is down to how expertly setup a suspension is and not just the label on the damper. You can save money by shopping around for the cheapest deal and fit coilovers yourself - But how many of us here have the experience and knowledge to find that sweet spot?
:happy2:
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