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Author Topic: VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension....  (Read 61651 times)

Offline RedRobin

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VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension....
« on: January 15, 2009, 09:13:58 pm »
....

We all love that lowered look on our modded GTI's. It makes our ride, and consequently us, look uber-cooool. Race cars are always slammed down on the deck as far as they can be, but always in consideration of the whole suspension's functionality - It isn't just for 'the look'. Sooner or later on that slippery slope of modding, you will make a pit-stop for suspension - It's a fundamental and important part of achieving a whole package which delivers a tactile and well balanced car which is a pure joy when driving enthusiastically. Responsibly driven, it also makes a safer car.


WHY:

Upgrading my stock suspension to KoniFSD dampers plus Eibach Pro-Kit springs and anti-roll bars was done at a very early stage. Koni's FSD system provided an excellent compromise between Harder-for-Performance versus Softer-for-Comfort and did so very cleverly by smartly (instantly) responding hydraulically (not electronically) to the road surface. I had one of the first KoniFSD sets for the Mk5 GTI, but 50,000 miles later they started to deteriorate and Koni had already revised their versions.

http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/suspension.jsp?make=Koni&model=FSD+Damper+Set

So, they needed replacement. Awesome in Manchester, where I originally bought them, have been extremely helpful as always but explained that, though under lifetime warranty, they would have to go back to Koni in Holland for confirmation of their failure so they could be replaced. With the other mods my car now has I really couldn't face both the effort and extra cost of changing back to my standard VW suspension (Sachs dampers) and I had no guarantee that Koni would agree that their FSD's had failed. So I had the perfect excuse to upgrade to another suspension system.


SOURCING:

Obviously Bilstein are probably the best there is but are expensive and have more adjustability than I need as I don't do regular track days. KW's are probably the next best and having worked with Mark Farmer at VWRacing/RacingLine for my Quaife diff, it was a no-brainer to go to VWR. They run both the Volkswagen Racing Cup and Formula Ford competitions and probably have more experience of the Mk5 platform than anyone else in the UK. They also have close working relationships with VW in Germany.

If I needed yet more reasons to use VWR, they have a technical partnership with KW in Germany - They are twintube which is unusual for a 'street' damper but allows better adjustments. The valving and setting parameters on mine are as on the race cars. They are adjustable but to settings exclusive to VWR as a result of extensive testing on their race cars. My spring rating is exclusive too (hence the different colour). This particular version of the V3 has been produced exclusively for VWR and is designed for 'Fast Road' use.



Although they are growing their 'Fast Road' market, their priority is of course to racing commitments, and so it tends to be a matter of being flexible and fitting in with their busy schedules rather than "I want to have it done next Monday and it needs to be done in x number of hours". But rest assured that, in my experience on more than one occasion, VWR/RacingLine will treat you extremely well and give you their undivided attention regardless of whether you are paying them thousands to convert a brand new Scirocco to a full-on race car or just having a new set of brakes.




INSTALLATION:





^ On arrival it didn't take long to get working on my car ^

My existing suspension was pretty well 'stuck on'! Simon did most of the installation - He's a real enthusiast and is currently building a Mk2 GTI with a VR6 engine.



^ Simon was constantly smiling while working! ^

It made sense to fit my Whiteline AntiLift Kit in the same workshop session.

As VWR's experience is particularly race focussed, it results in a number of practices which have very positive advantages. One of them is assembling components with lots of appropriate grease so that they can be easily replaced in the future. Another is their eagle-eye for spotting wear and the condition of components. The racing environment puts everything under extreme stresses and it's important to maintain everything in best working condition.





Mark anchored my KoniFSD's to the bench and discovered that he could compress the hydraulics by hand! He also pointed out evidence of leakage and suggested the seals had failed. Good news because it means that Koni will doubtless confirm the same and replace them with new ones without fuss.

We kept my Eibach Anti-Roll Bars.

Knowing he would get on with Mark, I had invited a good mate of mine - Dan, who started BIALI Motorsport - to join us for the day. So, encouraged (ordered!) by Mark, Dan and I spent quite a lot of time going off in their demo GTI - Very fully loaded and 330 neddies. Dan is used to a modified Mk4 R32 and so we shared driving. I'd drive out and he'd drive back. We went out three times and of course hated every second of it! Dan's .:R has KW-V3's too.








SUSPENSION SETUP:

After the installation was done, it was time for Mark to apply his expertise in setting up the suspension. This involved alignment and corner-weighting - So it was string and bags of sugar (very BIALI-style). First the corner weighting which involves a weight scale under each wheel and a digital readout of the weight at each corner.





^ The corner-weights readout before adjustments were made ^

Mark then asked me to sit in the car to add my weight and also noted that there was three-quarters of a tank of fuel.
He then adjusted my suspension settings to take account of this info.

Next came the piece of string. I had asked Mark if they used a laser alignment rig such as BeissBarth and he said no, he used string, which is the 'old school' method. He pointed out that at a race you couldn't easily carry around a big laser rig.





Then it was time to take the car out on the road to settle the suspension before checking alignment again.





^ However, I didn't expect they would race my car around the workshop! ^







^ But now I know why all those other race cars were there ^ [Yes, that Beetle is what you think it is!]

Then it was my turn to take my car out and check it was alright. Fortunately Milton Keynes has lots of roundabouts and so I was able to go round a few - Some I did several times at once! The road was greasy, she remained as flat as a pancake and the Quaife very quickly blew out the TC light. Nice!!!!


ALTERNATIVES CHOICES:

Obviously there are a lot of suspensions to choose from. Bilstein, KW are the top ones in my opinion but Eibach have a good reputation. The KoniFSD's are excellent and a superbly practical compromise. It's very much down to personal choice according to what you want to achieve and how you use your car.

I would strongly advise against the cheaper lesser established brands and also it's important to check the results of independent corrosion tests - Bilstein and KW do the best, though KW race dampers are galvanised and so not a good choice for a long term road car.


MINUS POINTS:

For me there aren't any except that I wouldn't dare use most indoor public carparks because of the steep ramp angle changes. But those were often dodgy in my car as it was.

For me this isn't a minus point, but some people wouldn't like the ride either as a driver or passenger - I can feel every manhole cover and cats-eye but I like the feedback and the ride isn't harsh - It's just 'nobbly'. My daughter doesn't know I've changed the suspension and has made no comment on the ride even on the rough road we live on, and she's very focussed on cars at the moment as she's learning to drive and will be taking her test soon.

Some may think that £1,550 (all inclusive) is expensive - I wouldn't! I'd say it's very good value for money and I feel both safer and happier to have had Mark's experience in setting it up. The V3's have a reputation for being tricky to get right.

My garage access is now a problem : -



But I solved that problem : -



^ A separate ramps review will follow [I'll link it from here when posted] ^


PLUS POINTS:

No bodyroll, extremely flatly planted, excellent feedback. The feel of the ride coupled with the sound of the Milltek add up to an even more taut and tactile driving experience. Although much less powerful than the VWR/RL 'Fast Road' demo GTI, my car now feels not that hugely different in the way that it handles, but although I'm more confident than I was in the VWR/RL car, I haven't explored its full potential but we didn't hang about! Both cars feel very controllable. But, of course, the demo GTI has extra camber and that will make a difference when pushed hard.

If I have any problems I know that VWR/RL will look after me very well. I absolutely love driving, so I love my car and I want to have the confidence of knowing it's well looked after by other enthusiasts who have the specialist skills and this also keeps me and my daughter potentially safer.

Yes, the lower look does suit the car better but it's the ride which I think is more important.


SUMMARY:

My brief to Mark had been to feel free do what he knows best but keep it practical for the road and not give me any uneven tyre wear problems and expenses. Clearly he has done exactly that and put a huge grin on my face.

I drove home the 170 miles in the dark and mostly on A-roads, so the next morning I spent out on some local B-roads which are slightly rough in places - I wasn't disappointed!



^ BEFORE ^



^ AFTER ^

:happy2: 8) :happy2:

« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 07:08:01 pm by RedRobin »


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Offline illyun

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Re: VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension....
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2009, 09:16:37 pm »
Wow....  :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:  Now thats what I call a write up - haven't read it yet, but wanted to be the first to reply  :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

Offline Top Cat

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Re: VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension....
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2009, 09:26:07 pm »
That is your best write up yet Red leader and i love the ramps to put it in your garage your neighbours must think you have finally flipped.  :grin:

Excellent

Offline john_o

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Re: VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension....
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2009, 09:29:21 pm »
Awesome write up Red  :happy2: looked like a fun day.
1420kg def a useful number. Good to see VWR take pride in their work, waiting for the LSD GB  :innocent:
Those ramps are gonna annoy after a while I reckon  :grin: you need that adjustable suspension you posted a while back   :wink:
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Offline Greeners

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Re: VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension....
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2009, 09:32:04 pm »
Really enjoyed reading that Robin, thanks mate  :happy2:

P.S. Your car does look ready for business with that lower stance!  :party:

Offline illyun

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Re: VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension....
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2009, 09:32:15 pm »
I wonder if JKM did this corner weight thing when I had Bilsteins put on.  I knew about it at the time and just assumed they would.

Can't wait to get my Quaife, Brakes and Engine Mounts done in Feb/March  - that should finish the car off apart from a lavishing of CF parts and rear LEDs though I'm going off the LEDs atm as they look too silver/bling esp on a black car.

Offline evvo

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Re: VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension....
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2009, 09:38:57 pm »
Looks great mate and great post  :happy2:

Was that a New Beetle RSI in the background of one of the shots? Wicked car 4 wheel drive with the 3.2 out of the R32  :happy2:
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Offline vwrascal

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Re: VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension....
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2009, 09:50:20 pm »
great write up  :happy2:, are vwracing in milton keynes then red robin?? 

I dont live far from there   :jumpmove:

Offline GTIjames

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Re: VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension....
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2009, 09:55:42 pm »
great write up robin and the ride height looks   8) i have found having to go 5 miles or less over a speed hump is worth it for the look and better handling when your out on the open roads.

 as for corner weighting I really wanted this myself but regal did not offer it, most places will charge extra for this and is very difficult to find a place which does, though as gaz said best way to set up coilovers

so thanks for tip robin, and those extra blue polly bushes look especially  :drool:
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension....
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2009, 09:58:12 pm »
That is your best write up yet Red leader and i love the ramps to put it in your garage your neighbours must think you have finally flipped.  :grin:

....Yes! The neighbour who has the garage next to mine is an ex-Police driver, back in the days of the early Mk Jags - He was laughing out loud this morning but he respects my driving attitudes and knows I love my car.


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Offline RedRobin

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Re: VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension....
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2009, 10:05:32 pm »
Awesome write up Red  :happy2: looked like a fun day.
1420kg def a useful number. Good to see VWR take pride in their work, waiting for the LSD GB  :innocent:
Those ramps are gonna annoy after a while I reckon  :grin: you need that adjustable suspension you posted a while back   :wink:

....Cheers, buddy - As I posted elsewhere, your structure guide is extremely helpful in writing a review :happy2:

Yes, pride and love of their work is exactly what VWR/RL are all about. We're all enthusiasts here, and that's what the guys at VWR are too. But so are others like JKM for example.

I know for certain that KW will bring out their High Lift System eventually and that through VWR they'll be able to substitute my springs and exactly match their rating. But until such time I'm happy to accept the ramps - I'm never in that much of a hurry nowadays.


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Offline gazbutS3

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Re: VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension....
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2009, 10:13:17 pm »
smashin write up RR, looks tops, and sounds like a top mod. Suprised you had it set that low to be honest, looks mint :happy2:

Offline RedRobin

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Re: VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension....
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2009, 10:19:45 pm »
Really enjoyed reading that Robin, thanks mate  :happy2:

P.S. Your car does look ready for business with that lower stance!  :party:

....Thanks, Nathan. Adding camber would make it look even more 'purposeful' but I don't want the extra tyre wear hassle. Afterall, I don't have a racing team's tyre budget!







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Offline Top Cat

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Re: VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension....
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2009, 10:22:15 pm »
What have they done to that red and white Rocco Robin it looks

Offline RedRobin

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Re: VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension....
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2009, 10:22:59 pm »
I wonder if JKM did this corner weight thing when I had Bilsteins put on.  I knew about it at the time and just assumed they would.

....I wondered that too.

Can't wait to get my Quaife, Brakes and Engine Mounts done in Feb/March  - that should finish the car off apart from ....

....Are you planning on going to VWR for that? Their own brakes are expected to be ready in a few weeks.
I'm going for their VWR engine mounts next.


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