am i ready for the ring

[RedRobin]

defo dont want a full cage....might have to get my thinking cap on 

....From what tony_d has said I don't think you need even a half-cage in order to properly fit just a harness bar. But VWR can certainly advise.

[animal]

defo dont want a full cage....might have to get my thinking cap on 

....From what tony_d has said I don't think you need even a half-cage in order to properly fit just a harness bar. But VWR can certainly advise.

Are you fitting harnesses then RR?

[monte]

Hey Paulk, Have you upgraded the standard suspension? All I was running were the H&R springs on standard shocks. They performed great on 99% of the track but they seemed to struggle on the first carousel. It felt like I was all over the place. It was ok if, I went through a bit slower, or went around it. The second carousel was fine going through 

[RedRobin]

defo dont want a full cage....might have to get my thinking cap on 

....From what tony_d has said I don't think you need even a half-cage in order to properly fit just a harness bar. But VWR can certainly advise.

Are you fitting harnesses then RR?

....I already have a Schroth Quikfit 4-point harness (only used for trackdays/Nordschleife) but am currently investigating a removable half-cage plus full harness. I will obviously post all about it in due course if/when I go ahead.

[animal]

defo dont want a full cage....might have to get my thinking cap on 

....From what tony_d has said I don't think you need even a half-cage in order to properly fit just a harness bar. But VWR can certainly advise.

Are you fitting harnesses then RR?

....I already have a Schroth Quikfit 4-point harness (only used for trackdays/Nordschleife) but am currently investigating a removable half-cage plus full harness. I will obviously post all about it in due course if/when I go ahead.

Are you upgrading your seats to rigid ones?

[RedRobin]

Are you upgrading your seats to rigid ones?

....Nope. That would be a downgrade regarding my main usage.

For those who may not know: My front seats are Recaro's VW factory option.

[ashley]

looks good paul, Its amazing the weight of the rear seats. Even my old tdi flew without, although it did introduce rake.

....When you say "rake" do you mean the rear of your car lifted noticeably higher without the weight of the seats?

Yep, might help you over those speed humps Robin 

[animal]

Are you upgrading your seats to rigid ones?

....Nope. That would be a downgrade regarding my main usage.

For those who may not know: My front seats are Recaro's VW factory option.

FYI - lower B-pillar sticker applied to Golfs with Recaros from the factory:

[cmdrfire]

Harnesses on "normal" seats (even if they are fancy factory Recaros) and non-caged cars are dangerous. I keep saying this but people just ignore it 

[animal]

Harnesses on "normal" seats (even if they are fancy factory Recaros) and non-caged cars are dangerous. I keep saying this but people just ignore it 

I agree and I have raised it before too. Tony_d did find information from Recaro regarding the after-market version of the Recaro CS (on which the Golf bucket seat it apparently based) and they do accept 4 point harnesses - however, it seems the VW OEM version of the seat aren't approved and/or VW are playing it safe from a liability point of view.

[RedRobin]

Harnesses on "normal" seats (even if they are fancy factory Recaros) and non-caged cars are dangerous. I keep saying this but people just ignore it 

I agree and I have raised it before too. Tony_d did find information from Recaro regarding the after-market version of the Recaro CS (on which the Golf bucket seat it apparently based) and they do accept 4 point harnesses - however, it seems the VW OEM version of the seat aren't approved and/or VW are playing it safe from a liability point of view.

....I don't think that anyone here is saying that harnesses aren't dangerous on the 'normal' VW oem seats.

All discussed in the Schroth Quikfit review thread:

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6341.0.html

I translate that label differently than you appear to do, animal - See the review thread where you also posted that label.

[animal]

Harnesses on "normal" seats (even if they are fancy factory Recaros) and non-caged cars are dangerous. I keep saying this but people just ignore it 

I agree and I have raised it before too. Tony_d did find information from Recaro regarding the after-market version of the Recaro CS (on which the Golf bucket seat it apparently based) and they do accept 4 point harnesses - however, it seems the VW OEM version of the seat aren't approved and/or VW are playing it safe from a liability point of view.

....I don't think that anyone here is saying that harnesses aren't dangerous on the 'normal' VW oem seats.

All discussed in the Schroth Quikfit review thread:

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6341.0.html

I translate that label differently than you appear to do, animal - See the review thread where you also posted that label.

I'm happy to agree to disagree, but I personally dont see how a big red cross through an image of the bucket seat can be 'translated' in any other way than dont do it.

[cmdrfire]

....I don't think that anyone here is saying that harnesses aren't dangerous on the 'normal' VW oem seats.

All discussed in the Schroth Quikfit review thread:

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6341.0.html

I translate that label differently than you appear to do, animal - See the review thread where you also posted that label.

Red, even with the fancy Recaros they are not racing seats and as such harnesses should not be used with them. The seats and the seat runners as a combination would almost certainly not comply with FIA specs; to use a harness with them is potentially lethal. See my example of the MINI owner last year (in the US) who had Recaros and a 4-point harness; his seat collapsed in the accident and he was killed by the harness.

The label is pretty explicit. Unfortunately physics doesn't give a toss about opinions or translations.

[RedRobin]

I'm happy to agree to disagree, but I personally dont see how a big red cross through an image of the bucket seat can be 'translated' in any other way than dont do it.

....Let me explain how I interpret that label but I accept I may be wrong and I hope you'll understand that I'm not trying to score points to win a debate:



^ Lefthand front (very clear) of seat illustration marked by a X to show not to feed belt ends through the slots from the back.

^ Top righthand circled illustration relates directly to the above and advises belt ends to be fed through slots from seat front towards back and uses an arrow to clarify.

^ Bottom righthand illustration shows what can happen when you ignore as advised.

[animal]

I appreciate where you are coming from Robin, but you have missed one other critical piece of information which is high-lighted in red on the seat (other than the arrows and the cross): the tilt-release hidden in the 'cosmetic' harness cut-outs.

I am guessing this label only applies to 3dr variants as the 5dr has no need for the release mechnism (they might possibly be stronger as they have no need to tilt forward - or I am wrong and they are the same seat?!). This label is high lighting the danger of using harnesses with these seats because of the danger they will unlock the tilt mechnism. Part of the reason I raise this issue is because I can clearly see in photos that you have 3dr seats fitted RR.

I'm not out to shout you down or prove you wrong either. It's simply concern for you safety. I've brought this up on the forum because up to now we haven't seen anything official from VW on these seats - only the assumption that Recaro's statement regarding the aftermarket CS seat also applies to these (which is tenuous at best as we have no idea what corners are cut to keep the price down on the VW OEM versions). The harnesses also might be TUV approved, but they are only as safe as the seat they are attached too.

At the end of the day, it's all about risk. This is not something that could effect anyone else in a crash or even cause one (unlike illegal brake pads or chav HID kits). It's listed on your insurance, so that's a start. Where you'd get with a personal injury claim remains to be seen given VW obvious stance on these seats and ignorance unfortunately not be admissable as a defense. But all this aside, it's your choice.