Recaro (1K0 010 615 K ?) and other info needed....

[paulk]

or maybe use the recaro cs handle which is differant from the oe recaros as it is located in the seat rear and pulls out wards to the rear of the car rather than pressing up wards

[RedRobin]

is there no way to put a lock pin through the handle stopping it from bein used and locking it in place, then it could be removed when not on a track..

....Wow! Theoretically that could be a very simple and another very good solution. I think you meant to write your post above as a question: "Is there no way to put.. so you could..?"

I'll have to have a close look.

As TC and animal have said here, there would still be a potential for the VW oem seat to fold because it's not a single shell like a FIA seat. However, trackday safety precautions don't have to meet FIA standards and Recaro foldable seats do already meet rigorous TUV test standards.

Thank You, Paul - That's a good suggestion to investigate further.   

or maybe use the recaro cs handle which is differant from the oe recaros as it is located in the seat rear and pulls out wards to the rear of the car rather than pressing up wards

....I don't quite understand the handle differences you're referring to.

The fact is that being a 5-door car I simply don't need to tilt the seat. I do need to lift the tilt release in the slot whenever I pass the Schroth harness end through. In fact I didn't realise the seat backs tilted until I accidentally actioned the release while trying to pass the harness through the slot.

[RedRobin]

Not doubting your methods RR, I think its great your putting it out there for discussion.

Otherwise just take the risk. We all take risks everyday and are still on here to post

....Thanks, ashley - Putting things out for discussion, even if minor, is exactly one of the many things which this forum is great for. It feels very rewarding to both help others and be helped 

Re the risk, I know that a designed-for-purpose single shell seat would be more protective but I'm initially trying to see if I can lessen the seat collapse risks with what I've got.

I'm also trying to minimise the look of my car as a dedicated track car and avoid having to rebuild it every time I do a trackday.

[RedRobin]

.
Paulk's idea of a lock-pin looks like by far the simplest option. A solid bar through the upper left hand corner of the tilt release should do it nicely if it's say Allen key headed:



It would take a heck of an smash up to break it and then break me. Without going into tedious detail I'm currently convinced that the folding 'hinge' won't fail unless the accident is very extreme:

[RedRobin]

.
I just had a call from my coachbuilder friend and he says no problem: The tilt release cables are apparently easy to unhook and he suggests we go a step further and add bolts inside to make the seat and back more as one shell. He's a fireman on call and tends to think about safety.

This probably still won't measure up to the safety aspects of a single shell race seat, but it should greatly reduce the risks of injury we've been discussing.

It also saves me money I can put into a removable half-cage instead of an additional driver's race seat.

I'll report more as and when something is done, along with pics. If only one other person benefits, it's worthwhile sharing this info.

[tony_danza]

Good stuff, too many people take an "oh, it'll be fine" attitude. 

[ashley]

Sounds like youve got a good solution RR

[paulk]

the handle on our oe recaro pulls up into the seat....The handle on the recaro cs clip out wards to the rear of the car and is set more into the top of the bracket so if you rolled the harness would have to move backwards to release the seat fold. Hard to decribe sorry

[animal]

.
I just had a call from my coachbuilder friend and he says no problem: The tilt release cables are apparently easy to unhook and he suggests we go a step further and add bolts inside to make the seat and back more as one shell. He's a fireman on call and tends to think about safety.

This probably still won't measure up to the safety aspects of a single shell race seat, but it should greatly reduce the risks of injury we've been discussing.

It also saves me money I can put into a removable half-cage instead of an additional driver's race seat.

I'll report more as and when something is done, along with pics. If only one other person benefits, it's worthwhile sharing this info.

Robin, as I'm sure you can tell, I've also been giving this a lot of thought. I was going to suggest taking measures to stop the seat articulating all together as well. However, I'm not sure a couple of bolts will really suffice.

I'm not 100% sure of how the seat frame is contructed, but perhaps you could look into the possibility of getting the hinges and/or the pieices of the frame (up-right back and the base) welded together? A weld will be a lot stronger than two bolts which will cause local stress and might not be very strong.

That said, the seat will still be inherently weak as the hinges on either side of the seat are the only points connecting the back and base together. Between these hinges there is nothing - just a gap. It is this lack of structure that makes these articulated 'bucket-style' seats weak and prone to twisting when they have harnesses threaded through them, loading the seat-back with forces it was never intended to cope with. Some sort of brace welded between the hinges might help, but it's the anchoring of the back of the seat to the base that needs beefing up.

One point to note - the second you change anything with the seat will cease to be TUV approved, so you'll need to make sure you insurance co. are aware of the modification.

I guess it depends how far you want to go with this, as very quickly it could become a lot cheaper to just buy rigid seat?

[paulk]

just sell them and get some recaro buckets. They will be lighter and stronger.They still have a small amount of tilt ....

[animal]

just sell them and get some recaro buckets. They will be lighter and stronger.They still have a small amount of tilt ....

+1 

RR doesnt need tilt, it's a more-door.

[paulk]

or get the porker wing back buckets 

[RedRobin]

Robin, as I'm sure you can tell, I've also been giving this a lot of thought. I was going to suggest taking measures to stop the seat articulating all together as well. However, I'm not sure a couple of bolts will really suffice.

I'm not 100% sure of how the seat frame is contructed, but perhaps you could look into the possibility of getting the hinges and/or the pieices of the frame (up-right back and the base) welded together? A weld will be a lot stronger than two bolts which will cause local stress and might not be very strong.

That said, the seat will still be inherently weak as the hinges on either side of the seat are the only points connecting the back and base together. Between these hinges there is nothing - just a gap. It is this lack of structure that makes these articulated 'bucket-style' seats weak and prone to twisting when they have harnesses threaded through them, loading the seat-back with forces it was never intended to cope with. Some sort of brace welded between the hinges might help, but it's the anchoring of the back of the seat to the base that needs beefing up.

One point to note - the second you change anything with the seat will cease to be TUV approved, so you'll need to make sure you insurance co. are aware of the modification.

I guess it depends how far you want to go with this, as very quickly it could become a lot cheaper to just buy rigid seat?

....I can see all the good sense in what you say and it would quickly get to the point where a substitute rigid seat would be a better option.

Your info is very helpful and for now I'm not going to make a final decision but will still at least disable the tilt mechanism just to lessen/reduce the risks rather than entirely solve it.

I'd enjoy a further chat with you about it when we meet next week. 

[RedRobin]

just sell them and get some recaro buckets. They will be lighter and stronger.They still have a small amount of tilt ....

+1 

RR doesnt need tilt, it's a more-door.

....Is the next post "Bagsy first dibs on your Recaro's, RR!" by any chance? 

[animal]

just sell them and get some recaro buckets. They will be lighter and stronger.They still have a small amount of tilt ....

+1 

RR doesnt need tilt, it's a more-door.

....Is the next post "Bagsy first dibs on your Recaro's, RR!" by any chance? 

I can't speak for Paul but I've got the .:R full leather, heated Recaros from the factory