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Author Topic: Forge CatchTank System - Review....  (Read 44258 times)

Offline RedRobin

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Forge CatchTank System - Review....
« on: June 29, 2010, 12:48:22 pm »
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WHAT IS IT?



Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) is a system developed to remove potentially harmful vapours from the engine and to prevent those vapours from being expelled into the atmosphere. The PCV system does this by using manifold vacuum to draw vapours from the crankcase into the intake manifold. Vapour is then carried with the fuel/air mixture into the combustion chambers where it is burned. The flow or circulation within the system is controlled by the PCV Valve. The PCV Valve is effective as both a crankcase ventilation system and as a pollution control device.


WHY HAVE ONE?

Excess crankcase pressure is vented from the crankcase through the PCV system, where it is drawn into the intake manifold and returned by the engine. This recirculated air contains aerated oil from the crankcase which is burned by the engine. Some (not all, I'm told) turbocharged engines, especially when performance modified, can draw significant amounts of oil into the engine through VAG's oem PCV system. An aftermarket oil catch tank system removes and collects the aerated oil so that it can be drained and externally recycled. The resulting sludge looks like a rich banana-coffee milkshake but it sure as hell doesn't smell like one!

Here is a well debated discussion in this linked thread about why you should have one or not:

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7040.0.html

John (john_o) says: "The key thing to remember is that the TFSI engine doesn't have a catch can (but everything else is relevant), and oil fumes / water vapour and related gumph are ported back into the engine to try and achieve good emissions. On most cars this is not a problem as fuel washes constantly keeping everything clean. The bad news is that TFSI is direct fuel injection (injectors spray directly into the combustion chamber), so the only thing passing the intake valves is air (and the oil and water vapour gunk), this is really bad news."


THE OEM PCV:



The 2.0T FSI engine comes with a closed PCV valve which obviously functions but as with most oem factory components it is designed and manufactured to restrictive rules and criteria and which can be improved by replacing with aftermarket components. PCV replacement - practiced by most performance engine tuners - is whereby the stock PCV system is substituted with an oil catch can and sometimes a breather filter venting crankcase gases to atmosphere instead of recirculating via the intake. The open types which ventilate to atmosphere almost certainly will not pass a MOT. It seems that VW have been obliged to sacrifice a degree of long term engine maintenance (intake valves) for the sake of more stringent emission controls.



^ Intake valve from stripped 2.0T FSI engine with oem PCV after xx,000 miles.
 

THE FORGE CATCH TANK SYSTEM:



Forge Motorsport, in my experience, is a typical small British company which strives for high quality in all its products. It's ethos is to design and manufacture the best without compromising quality. Okay, it's not aircraft industry standard but cars don't usually need to fly, and aircraft industry quality would be phenominally expensive. You can judge Forge's quality for yourself, even from the photographs. Additionally, simply supplying the more durable stainless steel jubilee clips instead of cheaper metal ones is a good example of Forge's way of thinking.

Designed as a closed PCV system Forge's offering of course includes the same functional components as most other manufacturers' kits. However, Forge's kit importantly uses hoses which are fluoro lined for chemical resistance and also features an invaluable sight-glass window to visually check when the tank needs emptying. The first kits used an externally mounted clear plastic tube for checking tank levels and this method is used by most other catch tank manufacturers, but Forge thought this through a bit further and decided that using glass would be much more resistant to any possibly abrasive cleaning agents, including petrol, used to clean out the tank between fillings.





^ Fluoro lined hose connections.



^ A replacement screenwash filler assembly (with stainless jubilee clips) is included in the kit.


ALTERNATIVES:

There are quite a few out there but mostly universal rather than specifically for the 2.0T FSI engine, and mostly from either America or the Far East. Some of them are works of art in anodised technicolour and I have even seen one system which has a hand-grenade shaped tank! There are also the inevitable universal systems which are cheap but not confidence inspiring.




SOURCE:

Direct from Forge Motorsport or their approved stockists. RRP £331.29 incl 17.5% vat for this latest version and JKM offer a 10% discount on all Forge Motorsport products for forum members.
 
Visit their website or contact JKM for an up-to-date price : - http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/tfsimisc.htm


INSTALLATION:

Straightforward and with instructions online from Forge with a downloadable pdf. I would point out that the current instructions are only for the American market without a charcoal cannister and so include no reference whatsoever to the screenwash assembly. The professional experienced mechanic who installed my Forge kit was not impressed by this and neither was I, but Forge are addressing my criticism across their products as appropriate.

I recommend fitting Forge's screenwash filler before the catch tank on the shared bolt. This will facilitate the tank's removal later for emptying and cleaning.




CHARCOAL CANNISTER - Fitting Tips:



On the Mk5 GTI the two hose connections on the top of the oem charcoal cannister interfere with the Forge Catch Tank. This can be resolved by undoing the oem spring clip on the rubber hose and twisting the hose out of the way. A special tool is needed for the VAG oem spring clips. While doing so it's also sensible to make sure it routes as low as possible so that the Forge pair of hoses can be positioned over the top - This will ensure much easier access when emptying the Forge tank later. However, as I have an Evoms engine cover, routing the Forge hoses below the charcoal cannister hose makes sure they don't risk getting cut by the metal edge of the Evoms cover. It's easy to access and loosen Forge's stainless jubilee clips anyway.

The second charcoal cannister hose is rigid plastic with a heat welded connection but the round cap can be carefully removed and repositioned at an angle so the rigid pipe avoids physical contact with the Forge catch tank.






MAINTENANCE:

Simple and easy to periodically check the catch tank's contents level and helped by the MAX line on the window frame. Emptying and cleaning the tank is straight forward and if you have followed my installation tips by fitting the Forge fluoro lines above the charcoal cannister hoses, there's enough flexibility to clear the engine bay. And you can easily loosen the jubilee clips as well if you want to completely remove the tank. Best to wash out with petrol.



For further cleaning the sight window can be opened with a small allen key and the 3mm thick polished edge glass taken out for wiping - This shows a lot of consideration.




PLUS POINTS:

- Very high standard of design and engineering, giving great confidence.

- Durable sight-glass built into the tank.

- High capacity tank which results in less frequent maintenance.

- Complete replacement screenwash filler assembly included in the kit. High quality and eye-candy.


MINUS POINTS:

- Relatively expensive. A Forge Twintake, high-flow tubular air intake, costs only about £50 more.

- No Allen key supplied to open and close the tank.

- UK version (charcoal cannister) installation instructions not available yet, but are expected.


SUMMARY:

A catch tank system which collects an oily and smelly sludge which needs disposing of on a regular basis is hardly something to get excited about and especially when it costs over £300. But I have to say that both the high standard of design and engineering and the confidence the Forge system gives, made me feel surprisingly elated. This was simply not the case with the BSH system which my Forge replaced. The BSH was only about half the price and functioned quite well, but is not in the same league. The Forge catch tank system is actually not very expensive when compared with the prices of some of the other American systems but I think the UK market is generally less inclined to spend much money on such modifications.

In the practical real-world of needing to regularly empty a catch tank, having a durable sight-glass is an invaluable feature. Some people may think that the Forge system is over-engineered but I'd far rather that than being under-engineered.

The replacement screenwash filler assembly is a very welcome bonus. Buy an anodised black aluminium coolant bottle cap from Jcaps and the oem bright blue plastic eyesores are all gone and the result is bay-candy.


ADDENDA:

In colder climates there have been reports of freezing catch tanks but I know of none which are Forge. Certainly my BSH tank collected a lot of water and that has the potential to freeze. So far, my Forge's residues are far more oily: sludge-and-oil as opposed to sludge-and-water. Regularly emptying the tank in very cold weather will obviously help and this is another example of the advantage of a sight-glass. We'll see how the Forge performs next winter.

I originally wrote this in Summer 2010. The Winter of 2011 was a particularly cold and harsh one and there were no problems with mine.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 01:53:00 pm by RedRobin »


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Offline Bogwoppit

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Re: Forge CatchTank System - Review....
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2010, 01:07:23 pm »
Good write up.
Do you happen to know the external dimensions of the Forge catch can?

Offline cuprak1

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Re: Forge CatchTank System - Review....
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2010, 02:10:20 pm »
Very good kit such a shame its VERY expensive for what it is...

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Offline bacillus

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Re: Forge CatchTank System - Review....
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2010, 02:37:03 pm »
I wonder why Forge didn't go for a valve for drainage at the bottom of the can like BSH...
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Forge CatchTank System - Review....
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2010, 02:48:00 pm »

Do you happen to know the external dimensions of the Forge catch can?


....The cylinder is 4"/100mm diameter x 4"/100mm height. I have a spare prototype which I have just measured.

I don't know the exact fluid capacity when up to the max marker but having just emptied my first catch tank (prototype), it's a lot bigger and will need emptying far less often. The gunk is far more oily than the watery version which my BSH collected but that may be time of year influencing temperatures.


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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Forge CatchTank System - Review....
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2010, 02:59:31 pm »

Very good kit such a shame its VERY expensive for what it is...


....It costs more when compared with the BSH alternative but Forge's system is so much better imo on many levels. It's the small details like stainless steel clips (much easier to undo long term than either oem painted steel or ordinary steel clips) and the use of fluoro hoses (much more expensive). The BSH is of course functional but its quality is far below Forge's product.

It's 'expensive' for what it does but only if compared to some others, and yet there are some even more expensive alternatives out there across the pond. At least there is a choice in the market for people.                                                                                                                                     


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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Forge CatchTank System - Review....
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2010, 03:02:44 pm »

I wonder why Forge didn't go for a valve for drainage at the bottom of the can like BSH...
 

....The stainless steel allen key bolt is nice and long and also allows a more direct dump with less dribbling than BSH's version.


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Offline KRL

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Re: Forge CatchTank System - Review....
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2010, 03:37:25 pm »
If I was buying a catch can kit now then the Forge would be my preference :happy2:

Great review Robin, thanks  :smiley:

Offline danishmkvgti

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Re: Forge CatchTank System - Review....
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2010, 03:39:55 pm »
Minus point:

When used near by and below zero the can freezes and need to be dismantled for the system to work.

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Offline joesgti

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Re: Forge CatchTank System - Review....
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2010, 04:42:50 pm »
Minus point:

When used near by and below zero the can freezes and need to be dismantled for the system to work.

is that the same on all catch cans or just the forge product!!


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Offline QD MBE

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Re: Forge CatchTank System - Review....
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2010, 04:50:10 pm »
The sight-glass looks to be almost fully obstructed by the Screen-wash filler neck.  During our previous conversations, I thought Forge were going to re locate it?

Also a sight-glass will have a tendency to cloud up, and become discoloured, hence a dipstick is the preferred measuring device in oil wetted systems.

Much prefer the black can over the straight aluminium variant.

Good write-up RR

Offline danishmkvgti

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Re: Forge CatchTank System - Review....
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2010, 05:13:36 pm »
Minus point:

When used near by and below zero the can freezes and need to be dismantled for the system to work.

is that the same on all catch cans or just the forge product!!

This applies to all catch can systems not only Forge. It looks like a well produced product, but as i live where the temp. is low a great part of the year, it just don't work for me. I use a stage 1 pcv fix and change the oil more often instead  :smiley:

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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Forge CatchTank System - Review....
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2010, 06:19:26 pm »
The sight-glass looks to be almost fully obstructed by the Screen-wash filler neck.  During our previous conversations, I thought Forge were going to re locate it?

Also a sight-glass will have a tendency to cloud up, and become discoloured, hence a dipstick is the preferred measuring device in oil wetted systems.

Much prefer the black can over the straight aluminium variant.

Good write-up RR

....Cheers, Dave :happy2:

Forge aren't offering a polished alu version anymore - It becomes even more expensive to produce. But if you were a serious show 'n shiner I expect they'd happily produce one for you.

The sight-glass has been repositioned - It was on the opposite side where their original external plastic sight pipe was. It isn't obscured by the screenwash filler but it does sit quite low but not so low to be a problem.

I know that a plastic 'sight-window' will cloud up and discolour but this is real glass. No such problem with my previous sight-glass but it was only on for a few months. Will glass cloud up and/or discolour? Also, two small allen screws allow access to remove the glass separately for cleaning - A nice touch methinks.

Does adding a dipstick method potentially provide a weaker vacuum seal? 


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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Forge CatchTank System - Review....
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2010, 06:21:14 pm »

Minus point:

When used near by and below zero the can freezes and need to be dismantled for the system to work.


....I'll possibly add that info to my Review. :drinking: But:

I'm assuming that you mean that the system has to be dismantled rather than the baffles etc within the catch tank itself. If there is already some oily residue inside the tank how does that freeze so easily unless the cold is much more extreme?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 06:25:36 pm by RedRobin »


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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Forge CatchTank System - Review....
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2010, 08:23:12 pm »
The sight-glass looks to be almost fully obstructed by the Screen-wash filler neck.  During our previous conversations, I thought Forge were going to re locate it?

Also a sight-glass will have a tendency to cloud up, and become discoloured, hence a dipstick is the preferred measuring device in oil wetted systems.


....Dave, I've now added two more pics and some text in my review re the points you raised - Thanks for that  :drinking:


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