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Author Topic: Panel Filter Fitment - Edition 30?  (Read 37518 times)

Offline QD MBE

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Re: Panel Filter Fitment - Edition 30?
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2009, 07:40:20 am »
My Carbonio intake came with a PiperCross panel filter but ITG have an excellent reputation.

From whom?

The ITG filter is certainly of very robust multilayered construction and fits the 'box' very tightly, so sealing is good - Better quality than the PiperCross which in turn is much better than the standard 'paper' panel. Extremely low maintenance was also a factor in my decision - No additional oiling is ever needed and just an occasional dust off. Also a lifetime warranty.

K&N also have a lifetime warranty to, but I wouldn't even fit one of them to my lawn mower - never mind a modern car with a MAF!  :scared:

Don't forget that the VW standard filter gets thrown away and replaced every ?,000 miles when servicing - What does that tell you?

I don't get your point.  The 'standard' VW oil filter gets thrown away on a routine basis, as does the engine oil, the DSG oil, and the DSG oil filter.  So, by the simple fact that the OEM paper air filter actually collects and holds any contaminents, ready to be disposed of in a routine manner (and therefore quantifiable) - has got to be far more efficient at filtration than something which never, ever needs changing.

So, by using that logic, how would you feel if you got a fone call on Monday morning, either from your highly trusted VW dealer, or JKM, VWR, Awesome - or whoever.  And the phone call went something like "Good morning Mr RedRobin - I am foning to tell you that we will change your engine oil, and refill it with oil that has a lifetime warranty, and never needs changing.  It is guaranteed for 250k miles - and your engine will see noticeable gains in performance, reliability, emissions" . . . . . I don't know how you would react, but my answer would be a brief two-word reply, begining in "F" and ending in "F" - quickly followed by ending the call.  :rolleye:

Air filters are designed to have two specific primary functions - and whilst one is a trade-off from the other, and vice versa - both those primary functions are pretty vital on a road car engine.


The ITG Pro-filter utilizes the same three layer reticulated polyester foam used on the MAXOGEN air filters. Unlike some of the competition, ITG filters have a massive dust load-up tolerance, which is the ability to absorb a large amount of dust without reducing air flow capacity. With the standard K03 turbo I wouldn't like to say that any performance gains are appreciable without proper scientific testing. However, the manufacturers claim about +2 bhp is possible.

2 bhp is nothing.  Completely insignificant.  Greater changes could be seen from changing a dirty OEM filter for a new OEM filter.  OK, granted, a new OEM filter won't give any increases over and above the manufacturers standard power outputs - but it will provide considerably more filtration protection compared any 'foam' or cotton types of filters.

It's also MAF-friendly!

How can you say that?  It is an 'oiled' filter, and even if you do 'clean' most of the oil off, some will still find its way onto the MAF.

And what about the TURBO?  All that unfiltered air goes through the turbo - and as you well know - fcuk up a turbo (for whatever reason), and they certainly aint cheap.  The cheap cost of £50, along with the "extra 2bhp" (whooo hooo!) will be long forgotten when you have to lash out £1500 for a new turbo.  :sad:

And probably more benefit to a remapped car.

Remapping alone wont be aided by just a freer flowing air filter.  How can it?  Physics provides the correct answers.  A 'freer flowing' air filter will only provide noticeable benefits if, and only if other associated changes are made throughout the 'air circuit' of the 'engine'.  For the GTI, that would mean: exhaust system, cats, and intercoolers.  So, on that theme, a Milltek zorst, and/or an uprated intercooler will provide far greater improvements compared to any filter (even a completely removed filter) - but won't jeopardise the reliability of the engine, MAF or turbo.


If you plan on keeping your car, as I do, then it'll quickly pay for itself by not needing to replace it - 50 squid well spent imo.

Sorry, disagree.  Non-standard air filters must be one of the least sensible mods to do on a road car!  OK, an aftermarket may be very cheap in the overall scheme of modifications - but its 'fcukability factor' must be one of the highest!



TEUTONIC DOES NOT RECOMMEND ANY AFTERMARKET AIR FILTERS!
:sad:  :sad:  :sad:  :sad:

Totally Agree with TT's Comments.  The paper filter is sacrificial, and bloody good at its job. 

The K+N etc brigade are all oiled, and this will find its way onto the thermo strip of the MAF, get burnt on, and mess the output signals of the MAF.  When you can remove the paper filter after 10K miles and replace for the price of 2 pints it is good enough for me.

After 10-15K, how do you clean a Aftermarket filter?  and how clean can you get it?  But as they sy ETTO.

I believe the MAF on VW's is a Hot wire type............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_airflow_sensor


Offline WhiteGTI

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Re: Panel Filter Fitment - Edition 30?
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2009, 08:06:29 am »
In terms of logic, I quite agree with your and T_T's comments.

But what I don't understand is why a company such as ITG who are well established and have a good reputation for air filters believe that oiling the filter is the correct way?

What is the benefit (in their eyes) of oiling the filter? And why do they not hold the same opinion regarding the oil messing up the MAF etc. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but I'm just curious as to the other side of the argument!  :smiley: :smiley:
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Offline QD MBE

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Re: Panel Filter Fitment - Edition 30?
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2009, 08:18:56 am »
They oil the filter to increase the filtration qualities.  I think with the increase in Vehicle electronic control (most cars are Fuel injected, and electronically controlled) the days of oiled filters is coming to an end.

When you clean a K+N etc you re-oil, as running dry does not give enough filtration.

.

Offline RedRobin

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Re: Panel Filter Fitment - Edition 30?
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2009, 12:31:12 pm »
....

Yes, I can understand T_T's reasoning (though unfortunately I no longer take everything he posts as gospel!) and also stokey's reasoning.

However, my understanding is that a paper filter (VW oem) is a 'surface' media and it's pores will start to block quite quickly. Whereas the ITG is a 'depth' media being foam and has a far greater capacity to filter (x5 is claimed).

The ITG filter comes very lightly pre-oiled and it isn't necessary to keep re-oiling it AFAIK.


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Offline WhiteGTI

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Re: Panel Filter Fitment - Edition 30?
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2009, 12:34:46 pm »
You're right Robin, it comes pre-oiled with no further need to re-oil...

Mine was soaked in the stuff though. I followed the advice of everyone and wiped off the surface oil, but it just kept coming! If i wipe it down now there is just as much oil coming off it as there was when I first started! It just doesn't seem quite right to me to have all that oil about!
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Panel Filter Fitment - Edition 30?
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2009, 12:46:02 pm »
^^^^
Have a word with ITG about it.

:happy2:


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Offline candy turbo

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Re: Panel Filter Fitment - Edition 30?
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2009, 08:19:50 am »
jkm do a green cotton panel filter, cheap mod for £35.
i got one of these from jbs when had re map and milltek had no problems with any , runs and sounds sweet (even at idle !) and has animal power  :happy2:

Offline illyun

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Re: Panel Filter Fitment - Edition 30?
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2009, 11:45:23 pm »
Bit worried now... I have the EVOMS air intake... does this exist alongside my standard filter or completely replace it?  I strongly suspect the second... Linking in another thread where I think it was sixpot, who had unstable idle (I have this issue too) due to a faulty MAF and alarm bells are ringing...  esp with what TT mentioned about the turbo and cylinder bore issue... I'll be on the phone to JKM tomorrow. :surprised:

Offline bacillus

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Re: Panel Filter Fitment - Edition 30?
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2009, 09:23:00 am »
Bit worried now... I have the EVOMS air intake... does this exist alongside my standard filter or completely replace it?  I strongly suspect the second... Linking in another thread where I think it was sixpot, who had unstable idle (I have this issue too) due to a faulty MAF and alarm bells are ringing...  esp with what TT mentioned about the turbo and cylinder bore issue... I'll be on the phone to JKM tomorrow. :surprised:
If you have an evoms intake then your standard filter and air box are dispensed with. The evoms has a seperate filter at one end.
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Panel Filter Fitment - Edition 30?
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2009, 10:43:22 am »
....

EVOMS offer quite a nice engine cover which can take your oem centre strip, if you prefer your engine bay looking tidier and more protection from the elements.



HTH :happy2:


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Offline illyun

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Re: Panel Filter Fitment - Edition 30?
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2009, 12:01:56 pm »
....

EVOMS offer quite a nice engine cover which can take your oem centre strip, if you prefer your engine bay looking tidier and more protection from the elements.



HTH :happy2:

Yes, I know about that but what I am worried about is the MAF and non-standard filter

Offline RedRobin

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Re: Panel Filter Fitment - Edition 30?
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2009, 12:11:40 pm »

Yes, I know about that but what I am worried about is the MAF and non-standard filter


....So, have you contacted and asked JKM yet?


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Offline illyun

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Re: Panel Filter Fitment - Edition 30?
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2009, 12:18:09 pm »

Yes, I know about that but what I am worried about is the MAF and non-standard filter


....So, have you contacted and asked JKM yet?



No.  Will do so later today, but am doing a bit of research first otherwise Keith will say, nice theory but we won't know until the car is checked out... but I wonder if they've had similar issues in the past.  Found this on another forum - looks like it is an issue.

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:JqynyzZKiy0J:www.6speedonline.com/forums/996-turbo-gt2/159308-evoms-intake-blowing-maf-why-3.html+evoms+and+maf+issues&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=uk

Offline john_o

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Re: Panel Filter Fitment - Edition 30?
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2009, 12:21:53 pm »
as I mentioned earlier
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76574
the guy still has not had a reply from K&N (and he probably never will).waited with baited breath.
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Offline illyun

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Re: Panel Filter Fitment - Edition 30?
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2009, 12:43:26 pm »
Spoke to Keith at JKM and obviously he cannot say for certain until the car is checked on Friday, but he thinks its unlikely to be the MAF as he has only seen this issue on older cars <2004.  He said the way to check would be to disconnect the MAF and see how it idles - you could even drive around like that as the ECU will substitute actual MAF readings for logged ones, but excessive load shouldn't be applied to the car in this case.  My car is in at VW atm so I can't check but all will be revealed (hopefully) on Friday.