DSG Gearbox Oil Level Question

[SteveP]

I have a question for mechanics technicians amongst us   

I recently had some odd noises when going between D and N on my DSG gearbox, long story short, dealer found the gearbox had approx 1/2 litre too much oil in it 

My car had done 25K miles at this point so must have been like this from the factory.

I am waiting for a formal response on this from the dealer but would like any opinions people have on this and any possible damage or long term issues this could have caused??

Thanks,

SteveP

[tony_danza]

I had a DSG service along with my 2nd service @ 24k/2 years (I'm on fixed)... and I was told mine had about 1/2 litre too much too.

I never had any noises though. Be interesting to see what they say?

[SteveP]

Interesting to hear I am not the only one.

Mine is also on T&D but the car is only 9 months old so for me the DSG service would be due at 40K miles I believe 

[RedRobin]

^^^^
Yes, the DSG service is at 40k miles.

It's recommended to change your DSG oil and filter more frequently if your car is modified. I've forgotten whether a mechanic or a technician told me that 

[tony_danza]

Well if mine's over 2 years old and yours is 9 months and both were overfilled, then there may well be many more out there??

Yup RR I was advised the same - My second service along with a full brake fluid change and DSG service came in at less than £300, so it's hardly hurting the wallet having a little peace of mind.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I have a question for mechanics technicians Grease Monkies amongst us   

LOL 

I recently had some odd noises when going between D and N on my DSG gearbox, long story short, dealer found the gearbox had approx 1/2 litre too much oil in it 

My car had done 25K miles at this point so must have been like this from the factory.

I am waiting for a formal response on this from the dealer but would like any opinions people have on this and any possible damage or long term issues this could have caused??

Hmmmmm, OK, firstly, how you know that the box was overfilled, and how do you know it was by half a litre?  I aint trying to doubt any of the forum members integrity or anything like that - but the DSG is NOT filled by "volume", it is actually filled to a certain level, and this has to be checked in an extremely specific manner, after operating the box through a strict test procedure, at a strictly defined oil temperature setting.  It certainly isn't as simple as removing a level plug, and letting it dribble out to the base of the hole.

I know that the local "DSG expert" at my local stealers (their description, not mine), was completely unaware of any such test and calibration procedure, even though it is on ELSA and is also repeated on the Ross Tech Wiki - so I would be very cautious about their claims.

If they are indeed correct, then, to be honest, it was overfilled in the factory.  The DSG box is effectively sealed, apart from a ventilation breather plug below the battery tray - so no oil from the engine will be able to 'migrate' into the DSG.  The DSG does have a heat exchanger with the engine coolant though (you can actually see it from the top) - and so it is possible if the heat exchanger is shagged that some coolant could get into the DSG oil, but this would have been evident if/when the stealer drained off the excess they had claimed.

One final point, and I am doning my flameproof jacket - do you, or Tony Danza have the open fog lamp grilles?  An old subject, but the DSG is very temperature-sensitive, and if the DSG has gotten overheated, then this will cause the oil level to rise.

On to the final point, could half a litre of oil more caused any issues?  Well, from personal experience with other manual and auto transmissions, I would strongly doubt it.  However, the DSG is a very different beast, and going by the simple fact that the fluid level is determined 'electronically', rather than by volume - I really can't say.

[tony_danza]

The VW proceedure is quite thorough in that you have to use one of those funny vacuum pumps to remove all the oil - this obviously has a level indicator and completely empties the 'box.

It was more than the stated volume required to refill by rougly 0.5ltr.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I had a DSG service along with my 2nd service @ 24k/2 years (I'm on fixed)... and I was told mine had about 1/2 litre too much too.

I never had any noises though. Be interesting to see what they say?

Again, how did they 'measure' this ½ litre?  Because when you drain a DSG, there isn't an "X" quantity of old oil which should drain into the pan, and then be replenished by another X litres.

For info, the DSG is factory filled with exactly 7.2 litres, but on a DSG oil change, it is supposed to take an estimated 5.5 litres - and the factory workshop is very strict in stating this is an estimated amount.  For individiual cars, it could be as little as 5 litres or as much as 6 litres - so again, if any monkies at the stealers tell you it should be exactly 5.5 litres, then they are BSing you.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

The VW proceedure is quite thorough in that you have to use one of those funny vacuum pumps to remove all the oil - this obviously has a level indicator and completely empties the 'box.

It was more than the stated volume required to refill by rougly 0.5ltr.

Whoah, that is categorically NOT the correct way to drain the DSG.  If any stealer has 'vacuumed' the oil from a DSG, then they need reporting straight to Volkswagen Germany.

There is only ONE permitted way to drain the DSG:

• remove battery and battery tray
• partially release oil filter housing and allow filter housing to drain
• fully remove oil filter housing, remove filter from housing, remove sealing o-ring
• fit new o-ring, fit new element into housing, replace filter housing and tighten to correct torque
• refit battery tray, refit battery - but do NOT turn on ignition or start engine (this is vital)
• raise vehicle on ramp/lift, ensuring vehicle remains perfectly level (this is also vital)
• position oil collecting recepticle, remove oil drain plug from lower side of DSG (a small amount of oil may trickle out at this point)
• remove integral oil level snorkel from inside drain plug hole (oil will gush out at this stage)

The above is the exact and only way to drain a DSG.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

^^^^
Yes, the DSG service is at 40k miles.

Actually, it is 4 years or 40k miles, whichever comes soonest.   

It's recommended to change your DSG oil and filter more frequently if your car is modified. I've forgotten whether a mechanic or a technician told me that 

Just doing some fire fighting!         

I actually don't think the "modified" bit is the crucial issue, but what is more important, it would seem, is how you actually use the DSG.  For example, even if you have a bog standard GTI, but spend every weekend at Santa Pod, and use Launch Control every day - then I would suggest that would be far, far more detrimental, than say a remap, zorst, and an extra 50 ponies - if used in a sensible manner.

[tony_danza]

I'm not disputing the method TT, before you take offence, but I would like to know what's the source of all that info?

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I'm not disputing the method TT, before you take offence, but I would like to know what's the source of all that info?

ELSA, erWIN, and lastly, Bentley Publishers.  All official sources. 

And no offence taken - if you don't ask, you don't learn! 

[SteveP]

Thanks for the info TT, certainly give me some ammo to use with use with the dealers 

[tony_danza]

Exactly, I don't understand why they'd be so silly as to tell people they'd been doing something wrong!... but on the other hand, I wouldn't like to go in there and tell them their job if I wasn't 100% sure I knew what I was talking about.

 

Is that the official VW method off their systems then that they have to work to?

[Teutonic_Tamer]

ELSA is the official factory manuals - which are only supposed to be for the VAG stealers. 

ErWIN are the same official factory manuals, but are online and are a 'paid for subscription' only.  Anyone can sign up for this, but it can get costly.

Bentley Publishers are official licensed re-sellers of official factory manuals from most manufacturers.  Used to be hardcopy books, but now generally just CD or DVD-ROMs.  And are supposed to be for North American market only - so stuff like lighting and emissions gubbins may be different, but major mechanicals, including the DSG will be identical, whichever side of the pond you are.

HTH