Make a donation

Author Topic: Newbie alert  (Read 8032 times)

Offline gazbutS3

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 52
  • -Receive: 55
  • Posts: 3213
    • Email
Re: Newbie alert
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2010, 12:12:22 pm »
Welcome Tony :happy2:

 the issue you talk about on the mk5 chassis rear end is not uncommon and can cause strange tyre wear on the edges of the rear tyres, sort of a blocking type thing, I've seen it on a few sets of wheels I have taken off mk5's/Leons etc

I look fwd to your chassis and set-up input as TC has already said, it does sometimes get over-looked in the quest for more power :evilgrin:
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 03:05:46 pm by gazbutS3 »

Offline Andy

  • Admin
  • Just look at my post count
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 39
  • -Receive: 443
  • Posts: 10935
    • Email
Re: Newbie alert
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2010, 03:04:49 pm »
As Gaz mentioned ..i bought my car new of vw and it wore the inner edges of my tyres in 10,000 miles,you ask the dealers and they say it is set correctly :fighting:

Offline wheels-inmotion

  • Taking part
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 2
  • Posts: 26
    • Email
Re: Newbie alert
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2010, 03:56:26 pm »
The manufacturers settings are just a suggestion, not the law. We use our own settings on cars with historic problems, this is tested on research donor cars we continually monitor until we're happy with the wear pattern.

Offline Andy

  • Admin
  • Just look at my post count
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 39
  • -Receive: 443
  • Posts: 10935
    • Email
Re: Newbie alert
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2010, 05:53:54 pm »
The manufacturers settings are just a suggestion, not the law. We use our own settings on cars with historic problems, this is tested on research donor cars we continually monitor until we're happy with the wear pattern.

since i had my car lowered and it set up again the rear tyes are wearing spot on but i have just gone from 18" to 19" so i will have to watch them

Offline wheels-inmotion

  • Taking part
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 2
  • Posts: 26
    • Email
Re: Newbie alert
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2010, 08:17:39 pm »
Excellent..... What guys and girls need to understand is if the car is modified you cannot use the OEM data? If done it essentially "de-tunes" the modification. Most domestic calibrations on the modified car borders the realm of tyre preservation, in truth there are two arenas "preservation and performance", finding the one in the middle is the holy grail of chassis calibration.

Saint Steve

  • Guest
Re: Newbie alert
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2010, 08:25:58 pm »
Excellent..... What guys and girls need to understand is if the car is modified you cannot use the OEM data? If done it essentially "de-tunes" the modification. Most domestic calibrations on the modified car borders the realm of tyre preservation, in truth there are two arenas "preservation and performance", finding the one in the middle is the holy grail of chassis calibration.

Does this apply for a car running more power with std suspention setup, or do you mean, if its lowered, different Rim dimensions etc etc?

Useful info  :happy2:

Offline wheels-inmotion

  • Taking part
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 2
  • Posts: 26
    • Email
Re: Newbie alert
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2010, 09:03:22 pm »
What's the point of more power if the car cannot handle the twisties. If the intention is drag then happy days but if it's fast road hitting the load peddle then braking like a Micra owner on a Sunday drive "corner in" belays the point.

There's loads to explain, maybe i should open another thread but by design the cars chassis has a frequency and believe it or not it's tuned to our natural frequency, when the car is modified it needs to be calibrated to suit the owner and his/her intentions, in addition the tyre wear factor is examined......

My natural frequency is quite low so i would have problems driving a car like the Evo X, whereas someone like Button would say it handles like a bit of a donkey, this is not because he is a F1 driver, it's because he can cope with much more input "yaw" and he finds the car unresponsive.

The domestic car is setup to understeer, it's chassis positions encompass the boy/girl racer and grandma, it's in the manufacturers interest the car has a global inert handling package, some would argue the HP but think about it the HP is "available power" not handling, push that to the limit because you want to feel the HP and you get it wrong the car understeers.

Changing the chassis positions changes the tyres saturation limits..... your thinking WTF is he on about now?... Well that's another topic methinks.

Saint Steve

  • Guest
Re: Newbie alert
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2010, 09:12:36 pm »
 :happy2:

Another thread i feel would be as you say worth doing.

We've not had an in depth review on Setups to do with suspention Geometrys etc on here, so would be worth a good topic to Sticky.

Look foward to reading any input  :happy2:

Offline wheels-inmotion

  • Taking part
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 2
  • Posts: 26
    • Email
Re: Newbie alert
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2010, 09:21:03 pm »
Any idea where this should go?... The topic title is "chassis dynamics the real explanation". The reason i say chassis dynamics is this encompasses the actual chassis and the suspension dynamics, with a smattering of areodynamics.

Offline Andy

  • Admin
  • Just look at my post count
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 39
  • -Receive: 443
  • Posts: 10935
    • Email
Re: Newbie alert
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2010, 09:28:38 pm »
What's the point of more power if the car cannot handle the twisties. If the intention is drag then happy days but if it's fast road hitting the load peddle then braking like a Micra owner on a Sunday drive "corner in" belays the point.

There's loads to explain, maybe i should open another thread but by design the cars chassis has a frequency and believe it or not it's tuned to our natural frequency, when the car is modified it needs to be calibrated to suit the owner and his/her intentions, in addition the tyre wear factor is examined......

My natural frequency is quite low so i would have problems driving a car like the Evo X, whereas someone like Button would say it handles like a bit of a donkey, this is not because he is a F1 driver, it's because he can cope with much more input "yaw" and he finds the car unresponsive.

The domestic car is setup to understeer, it's chassis positions encompass the boy/girl racer and grandma, it's in the manufacturers interest the car has a global inert handling package, some would argue the HP but think about it the HP is "available power" not handling, push that to the limit because you want to feel the HP and you get it wrong the car understeers.

Changing the chassis positions changes the tyres saturation limits..... your thinking WTF is he on about now?... Well that's another topic methinks.

when i worked at my first garage he used to race a rally car and its the first thing he told me is if your buildind a car for the track get the handleing right first,the car we build first season was getting the chassie and handling right plus the brakes,i followed some of what you put :signLOL:

Offline wheels-inmotion

  • Taking part
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 2
  • Posts: 26
    • Email
Re: Newbie alert
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2010, 09:34:49 pm »
How true.... If we brake it all down to the naked simple truth, the power gets you there, the brakes stop you crashing there and the handling gets you around there.

Saint Steve

  • Guest
Re: Newbie alert
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2010, 09:41:54 pm »
Any idea where this should go?... The topic title is "chassis dynamics the real explanation". The reason i say chassis dynamics is this encompasses the actual chassis and the suspension dynamics, with a smattering of areodynamics.

Proberly somewhere in the tech workshop section... Workshop manuals are listed in there aswell. Maybe easiest to find from there  or unless the Moderators prefer it in other. Imsure they'll move it to where they think.

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/board,35.0.html

Im sure the mods would then make it a sticky topic to remain for all to read at the top of the Workshop section  :happy2:
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 09:43:26 pm by Saint Steve »

Offline wheels-inmotion

  • Taking part
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 2
  • Posts: 26
    • Email
Re: Newbie alert
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2010, 09:45:25 pm »
Thanks for that...... Here we go!

Offline JPC

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 93
  • -Receive: 111
  • Posts: 6222
Re: Newbie alert
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2010, 11:03:09 pm »
welcome along! who owns the 430 there?? :)

Offline wheels-inmotion

  • Taking part
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 2
  • Posts: 26
    • Email
Re: Newbie alert
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2010, 09:54:12 am »
welcome along! who owns the 430 there?? :)

The director of developments owns the 430.